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Old 06-08-2019, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
21,289 posts, read 14,289,522 times
Reputation: 15781

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It wasn't your everyday flip flop. Biden held his old position for about 40 years.

If he didn't flip, he stood no chance of ever winning the nomination. He never realized how quickly and deeply the Democratic party had changed during his time as VP.

At his age, I'm surprised he was even able to flip flop. Most guys in their 70s hold to their old beliefs much harder than they give them up.
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Old 06-08-2019, 04:41 PM
Status: "think locally, act yokelly." (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,098 posts, read 548,060 times
Reputation: 940
Biden is the frontrunner, but how much of that is just due to the large size of the Dem field. Biden has been at around 33% in polling. That's a long way from 50%+1 that is usually needed to win the nomination.

He's at 23% in Iowa and 28% in NH. Not exactly solid frontrunner numbers.

The question will be as people start to drop out later this year and into next year, where will their supporters go? I'm not sure I see any candidates whose supporters could be automatically expected to move to Biden. If he stays stuck at 33%, he'll have a tough row to hoe.

Remember, Biden ran 3 times before, and lost all three.
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:22 PM
 
3,823 posts, read 4,005,940 times
Reputation: 2572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
Have you ever seen the videos of Trump from the 80's talk shows where he talks about what he would do if he were President? All the same stuff as now.
He is on & off about a number of things.


Including that the huge one time tax on wealth that he thought was reasonable, appropriate in 1999.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-...soak-the-rich/

Last edited by NW Crow; 06-08-2019 at 05:54 PM..
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:43 PM
 
3,823 posts, read 4,005,940 times
Reputation: 2572
The Hyde Amendment was a compromise from 40 years ago. Sometimes to get something, you have to give something. It was not given easily. At the time there seemed no way to avoid it.

It has been law under every President since. No Democratic President changed it and I am not aware how hard they fought to change it. Hillary only came out publicly against it 3 years ago.

Part of the explanation for this behavior was to try to separate and protect the right to abortion from the cause to get the federal government to pay for it and seeing the first cause as far greater than the second. Somehow most of those how sought abortions have gotten them in the last 40 years. Better the level of choice experienced than none at all.

The right continuously re-opens the abortion debate. The Supreme Court has refused to fundamentally, so far. But, I guess both sides are going to go for total victory for their side or at least make a show for it.

If continuing the Hyde amendment limited the right wing attempt to extinguish the private right to make this choice, and it could be argued that it did to some degree, it might continue to be considered tolerable by many. But that case was never clear cut and certainly has eroded significantly recently. If they want to re-fight everything, they will get a fight for everything from at least some.

There is, however, zero chance the Hyde amendment gets overturned unless the Democrats were somehow able to win both the Presidency and 60% (or close to it) in the Senate to defeat a filibuster to prevent overturning it. So, until that time comes, this is not the issue that I would make pivotal for voting for or against any candidate. Protecting the right to private healthcare decision-making is the first, bigger, clearer and more winnable battle to focus on.


But, yes, it would have been better for Biden to explain his position / change of position intentionally than for it to come out accidentally. I am not aware of other candidates making the Hyde amendment a big issue til now. If they did, ok. And help me see the evidence with links from earlier time period.


I am currently unlikely to vote for Biden but it is mainly based on other reasons. And too early to say for certain. Electability is both important and subject to change.

Last edited by NW Crow; 06-08-2019 at 06:28 PM..
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:19 PM
 
3,823 posts, read 4,005,940 times
Reputation: 2572
Several polls show Biden as the most common current second choice of most voters if their candidate couldn't get it. But his support as #1 and #2 may both be soft. I think it is. But we'll see if there is major movement after first debates, the following 6 months, the first primaries & caucuses, or stuff after that.


25-35% voting for Biden would translate to a lot bigger % of the delegates awarded unless more other candidates than Sanders get above 15% voting support. The latest polls show several other candidates in the 8-12% range but it won't matter unless they get above 15%.


If Biden were to get 30% somewhere and Sanders 20% and no others over 15%, Biden would get 60% of the delegates and Sanders 40%. If that happens frequently, supporters of other candidates in later primaries might be forced to choose between just those two. I'd prefer other scenarios, but I don't get to decide the scenario. Just the vote, when that time comes.

Last edited by NW Crow; 06-08-2019 at 06:30 PM..
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:32 PM
 
3,823 posts, read 4,005,940 times
Reputation: 2572
https://theweek.com/speedreads/84570...mendment-voted


Many others in Congress (now or previously) tacitly accepted the Hyde Amendment continuing.


If opposing Hyde is a priority issue to you, only Sanders has a strong previous voting record on that.
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Old 06-08-2019, 07:24 PM
 
10,840 posts, read 2,690,662 times
Reputation: 5031
It's silly for Demwits to scold Republicans for exposing Biden. What he really needs to worry about is other Demwits and Progressives who will destroy him. The whole party is deranged.
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Old 06-09-2019, 05:31 AM
 
78,225 posts, read 33,343,867 times
Reputation: 15657
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
It wasn't your everyday flip flop. Biden held his old position for about 40 years.

If he didn't flip, he stood no chance of ever winning the nomination. He never realized how quickly and deeply the Democratic party had changed during his time as VP.

At his age, I'm surprised he was even able to flip flop. Most guys in their 70s hold to their old beliefs much harder than they give them up.
The party didn't change on this topic. If there hadn't been support for taxpayer funding, there would not have been a need for the Hyde Amendment to start with.
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Old 06-09-2019, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,793 posts, read 16,211,986 times
Reputation: 12746
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
It wasn't your everyday flip flop. Biden held his old position for about 40 years.

If he didn't flip, he stood no chance of ever winning the nomination. He never realized how quickly and deeply the Democratic party had changed during his time as VP.

At his age, I'm surprised he was even able to flip flop. Most guys in their 70s hold to their old beliefs much harder than they give them up.
If he didnít realize this, he has absolutely no business running for president.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:12 AM
 
3,915 posts, read 1,519,086 times
Reputation: 7285
This story reminded me of one of my favorite dishes when I lived on the Big Island - Huli Huli Chicken. Makes for a very tasty meal, but not what I want in the White House.....
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