Obama Delegates to Seattle Dem Caucus boo Pledge of Allegiance (christmas, American)
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I have a question back to you though.........what is the purpose of not saying the pledge of allegiance? Further, what is the purpose of then booing the very idea of it? And please, no ridiculous comparisions of the US to the Third Reich as that only cheapens the deaths of those that stood up to it and were murdered in concentration camps.
I have made no comparisons to the Third Reich but did note the similarity with one aspect of fascism.
You ask a question but didn't answer mine.
Well, I CAN answer yours. The purpose of not saying it is that to say it is to agree with it's premise, agree that even though I was born in America, and AM an American, I should have to re-affirm it publically.
To say it is to agree with those who believe if you don't say it you're anti-America, that you should leave your own country over a slogan. I am NOT stupid so I do not agree with them. These misguided people have made it a benchmark of patriotism...it is merely a slogan and in AMERICA, the "land of the FREE" it mosty certainly should be an option.
There should be no "test" for Americans as to their citizenship nor their loyalty.
I have made no comparisons to the Third Reich but did note the similarity with one aspect of fascism.
You ask a question but didn't answer mine.
Well, I CAN answer yours. The purpose of not saying it is that to say it is to agree with it's premise, agree that even though I was born in America, and AM an American, I should have to re-affirm it publically.
To say it is to agree with those who believe if you don't say it you're anti-America, that you should leave your own country over a slogan. I am NOT stupid so I do not agree with them. These misguided people have made it a benchmark of patriotism...it is merely a slogan and in AMERICA, the "land of the FREE" it mosty certainly should be an option.
There should be no "test" for Americans as to their citizenship nor their loyalty.
Whoops, sorry I see that I should have answered your question as well......so, you were asking why does parroting phrases prove one patriotic? Loaded question, so instead I will ask and answer my own
Does not saying the pledge make one unpatriotic? And why?
It depends on the situation, and also the thoughts behind such a motion. If you are abstaining from it because you have a serious beef with the country --- thats understandable. If you don't say it because you want to make a point that in this country you don't have do anything simply because the government tells you to ---well, it may be somewhat douchey but thats fine as well.
But in either case you are making a deliberate show that you are in fact not patriotic. That you do have a problem with the government or that you have a problem with authority or whatever....there is a problem with the way that you feel about your country. It's like when people get tons of facial piercings then complain because other people look at them weird. If you can't or won't connect the dots between your actions and how others perceive said actions.....well, you have another problem on your hand that goes beyond patriotism.
Now, I do completely and wholeheartedly understand people who do not say the pledge because of religous reasons or if they are actively protesting something else. Say, people during the civil rights movement.....I know that had I been an adult around that time I would have had a hard time saying the pledge to a government that was actively participating in apartheid.
Now, answer my question about the booing please!
Last edited by camping!; 06-30-2008 at 06:28 PM..
Reason: add
Whoops, sorry I see that I should have answered your question as well......so, you were asking why does parroting phrases prove one patriotic? Loaded question, so instead I will ask and answer my own
Does not saying the pledge make one unpatriotic? And why?
It depends on the situation, and also the thoughts behind such a motion. If you are abstaining from it because you have a serious beef with the country --- thats understandable. If you don't say it because you want to make a point that in this country you don't have do anything simply because the government tells you to ---well, it may be somewhat douchey but thats fine as well.
But in either case you are making a deliberate show that you are in fact not patriotic. That you do have a problem with the government or that you have a problem with authority or whatever....there is a problem with the way that you feel about your country. It's like when people get tons of facial piercings then complain because other people look at them weird. If you can't or won't connect the dots between your actions and how others perceive said actions.....well, you have another problem on your hand that goes beyond patriotism.
Now, I do completely and wholeheartedly understand people who do not say the pledge because of religous reasons or if they are actively protesting something else. Say, people during the civil rights movement.....I know that had I been an adult around that time I would have had a hard time saying the pledge to a government that was actively participating in apartheid.
Now, answer my question about the booing please!
What don't you understand about :
"The purpose of not saying it is that to say it is to agree with it's premise, agree that even though I was born in America, and AM an American, I should have to re-affirm it publically. ""
"""These misguided people have made it a benchmark of patriotism...it is merely a slogan and in AMERICA, the "land of the FREE" it mosty certainly should be an option.
There should be no "test" for Americans as to their citizenship nor their loyalty. ""
Yes, you are free to make "rules" for saying or not saying the pledge and form your own judgements about the people who choose to say it or not BUT insisting that those who don't say it are un-patriotic or have a beef with the US is just inaccurate.
AGAIN, how do you know that people who do say the pledge are total patriots with no beef with America???? Because they repeat a slogan?????
Further, what is the purpose of then booing the very idea of it?
see above, and below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne
"There was some time to kill as multiple tallies of the delegates and alternates were done, and when the time-killer of taking audience questions had run its course and the idea of telling jokes had been nixed, someone suggested doing the Pledge of Allegiance to pass the time. (Are you listening, right-wing bloggers? This is going to get good.)
"At the mere mention of doing the pledge there were groans and boos. Then, when the district chair put the idea of doing the Pledge of Allegiance up to a vote, it was overwhelmingly voted down. One might more accurately say the idea of pledging allegiance to the flag (of which there was only one in the room, by the way, on some delegate’s hat) was shouted down."
= Rowdy jerk kids. Not battalions of Brave New World automatons as the OP and others on here would lead you to believe.
"The purpose of not saying it is that to say it is to agree with it's premise, agree that even though I was born in America, and AM an American, I should have to re-affirm it publically. ""
"""These misguided people have made it a benchmark of patriotism...it is merely a slogan and in AMERICA, the "land of the FREE" it mosty certainly should be an option.
There should be no "test" for Americans as to their citizenship nor their loyalty. ""
Yes, you are free to make "rules" for saying or not saying the pledge and form your own judgements about the people who choose to say it or not BUT insisting that those who don't say it are un-patriotic or have a beef with the US is just inaccurate.
AGAIN, how do you know that people who do say the pledge are total patriots with no beef with America???? Because they repeat a slogan?????
I don't know what is in the hearts and/or minds of people who say the pledge. My bet is that they are waiting for the ballgame to start, as that is really the only place adults are 'coerced' into saying the thing.
I would hope that the idea of saying the pledge of allegiance -- recognizing in a public way your dedication to your country -- as you are performing as a delegate of the democratic party of the united states, is not a hateful one. If ever there was a time to publicly state your affiliation with a country -- that would have been the time.
Why not address the particulars of the thread?
Also, you didn't answer my question.....what purpose did booing the idea of saying the pledge of allegiance serve the democratic delegates?
Nonetheless, to make a big deal out of being a 'rebel' by opting out of saying the pledge of allegiance in a country that you know will not prosecute or persecute you for doing so is a bit of a douchebaggery move imho. And that is what Seattles delegates did. Such anti establishment radicals
Also, you didn't answer my question.....what purpose did booing the idea of saying the pledge of allegiance serve the democratic delegates?
This was not a collection of erstwhile ladies and gentlemen who gathered at Lincoln High School for this required meeting. There is nothing to be shocked about. These were dumb young kids.
The OP pulled a bait and switch, counting on people not to read further about the event.
"There was some time to kill as multiple tallies of the delegates and alternates were done, and when the time-killer of taking audience questions had run its course and the idea of telling jokes had been nixed, someone suggested doing the Pledge of Allegiance to pass the time. (Are you listening, right-wing bloggers? This is going to get good.)
"At the mere mention of doing the pledge there were groans and boos. Then, when the district chair put the idea of doing the Pledge of Allegiance up to a vote, it was overwhelmingly voted down. One might more accurately say the idea of pledging allegiance to the flag (of which there was only one in the room, by the way, on some delegate’s hat) was shouted down."
This was not a collection of erstwhile ladies and gentlemen who gathered at Lincoln High School for this required meeting. There is nothing to be shocked about. These were dumb young kids.
The OP pulled a bait and switch, counting on people not to read further about the event.
"There was some time to kill as multiple tallies of the delegates and alternates were done, and when the time-killer of taking audience questions had run its course and the idea of telling jokes had been nixed, someone suggested doing the Pledge of Allegiance to pass the time. (Are you listening, right-wing bloggers? This is going to get good.)
"At the mere mention of doing the pledge there were groans and boos. Then, when the district chair put the idea of doing the Pledge of Allegiance up to a vote, it was overwhelmingly voted down. One might more accurately say the idea of pledging allegiance to the flag (of which there was only one in the room, by the way, on some delegate’s hat) was shouted down."
I did read the article, and while the it was held at a high school never did I get the impression that it was being run by highschoolers.
"There were to be 67 delegates to the state convention apportioned at this legislative district caucus: 14 for Clinton and 53 for Obama. "
This sounds like the real deal.........but then it is late so....
I underscored that it was held at a high school to indicate that it wasn't a formal or particularly important gathering - not one that would require renting a hall. You saw the badly behaved Hillary supporters at the DNC meeting re admitting MI and FL delegates. These were more of the same. I didnt know what else to call them so I called them kids. I know they went high schoolers
I don't know what is in the hearts and/or minds of people who say the pledge. My bet is that they are waiting for the ballgame to start, as that is really the only place adults are 'coerced' into saying the thing.
I would hope that the idea of saying the pledge of allegiance -- recognizing in a public way your dedication to your country -- as you are performing as a delegate of the democratic party of the united states, is not a hateful one. If ever there was a time to publicly state your affiliation with a country -- that would have been the time.
Why not address the particulars of the thread?
Also, you didn't answer my question.....what purpose did booing the idea of saying the pledge of allegiance serve the democratic delegates?
Nonetheless, to make a big deal out of being a 'rebel' by opting out of saying the pledge of allegiance in a country that you know will not prosecute or persecute you for doing so is a bit of a douchebaggery move imho. And that is what Seattles delegates did. Such anti establishment radicals
Bolding mine.
I think being a delegate would certainly prove your affiliation with a country especially if you insist being a citizen isn't enough.
I think repeating slogans to prove your loyalty is Fascist.
""what purpose did booing the idea of saying the pledge of allegiance serve the democratic delegates? ""
I have no idea and don't care...with all the more serious issues it's nothing to me. Why don't you ask one of them?
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