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Do you know how RARE this procedure is? Do you have a single clue? A nurse may witness one or two in her entire life, and certainly no regular RN would!
Your friend IS lying. Do you understand me? She is lying to you, and you are spreading the lie, and I wish to God that Republicans would at least CONSIDER researching the ridiculous crap that you spew. I bet you think that there are tons of teen girls having abortion w/o their parents knowing, don't you? If you would at least just say "I know I'm full of crap but I'm going to keep spreading this BS so I can sway more people to my side," I'd let it go/
Partial-birth abortion. LULZ. That's not even a recognized term in the medical profession. Ask your imaginary nurse friend what the proper medical term is - and don't go Googling it, either, because I know you've never heard of it. No self-respecting nurse would ever use such a STUPID term. So who's lying, McMolly? Her or you?
Okay. Now you're really annoying. There are no lies involved here and I don't "spew". I expressed my feelings from what I know and I expressed what I know to be fact.
As I said .... she has seen "too many". One is too many for God's sake!!!! I have no idea whether she's seen one, two or more. All I know is how it affected her when she told me and her exact words, if you must know, were "one too many". Are you dense as well as rude???
You don't know me or anything about me so I don't know how you come off calling me a liar. I'm a lot of things you may not like, but one of them is most definitely NOT a liar.
Are you sure they're not fostering right now and waiting for the adoption to come through? I'm sure your friends are wonderful people, but adoptions usually take quite a while, and it disturbs me that they wouldn't put the same type of screening for black babies as they would for white. "Oh, you want a black baby? Well, your name is spelled right on your license - here you go. Oh, what the hell. Take two."
Nope, they adopted, it was legalized within a couple of months of them receiving the child(ren). The fact is, there are MANY more black children than white waiting for adoption, but the vast majority of adoptive couples are white, and many are not willing to take a baby from a different or mixed race.
Nope, they adopted, it was legalized within a couple of months of them receiving the child(ren). The fact is, there are MANY more black children than white waiting for adoption, but the vast majority of adoptive couples are white, and many are not willing to take a baby from a different or mixed race.
Makes me wonder if those couples are anti-choice or pro-choice.....
As I said .... she has seen "too many". One is too many for God's sake!!!!
Geez, you ARE a Republican. Why bother with conversation? All you're going to do is change the definitions to change your BS agenda. You were lied to, and now you're spreading the same lie, and you have no problem with it.
Partial-birth abortion. Hee hee hee hee. Your friend hasn't been anywhere NEAR an abortion procedure and deep down, you know it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa
Nope, they adopted, it was legalized within a couple of months of them receiving the child(ren). The fact is, there are MANY more black children than white waiting for adoption, but the vast majority of adoptive couples are white, and many are not willing to take a baby from a different or mixed race.
I almost hate to weigh in here because even though I am pro-choice I respect the opinion of those who are completely pro-life.
Although I find the topic of partial-birth abortion and post-birth abortion completely repulsive, I have to agree with Obama on this. He is an advocate for women's right to choose but he has NOT ADVOCATED for partial-birth or post-birth abortions in any way.
The wording of "the Born Alive Infant Protection Act" puts a woman's right to choose in jeopardy completely, which is not the intention. Until the wording is better refined to establish guidelines that don't infringe on all women's right to choose, even during the earliest weeks of pregnancy, the legislation should not and would not pass. Recognizing the need for legislation but knowing that the proposed bill was not acceptable and would not stand up to scrutiny, Obama has voted "present". This hardly merits him being labeled as a PROPONENT for partial/post birth abortions.
Furthermore, the fetus/baby that results from a botched abortion is not going to be a healthy full term baby. It is really sad, but in most instances, the kindest thing to do would be to not provide any medical care or quickly put an end to further suffering. How horrible it would be for the doctor who has to end it's life. But after working with doctor's for many years, I can tell you that many doctors feel equally horrible about saving a life whose quality of life is essentially nil and often painful. In the medical field they refer to this as a "bad save".
I worked in a state hospital with children who had IQ's of 2 or 3. That basically means they have a slight response to pain. Some were micro cephalic and others had anencephaly (no brain). They were fed through feeding tubes, needed eye drops every 30 mins. because of lack of a blink reflex, etc. Mercifully, their lives were usually cut relatively short.
Unless you are staunchly pro-life under all circumstances, there are no black and white answers. If abortion ever becomes illegal, botched abortions will be much more common with all the ensuing horrors mentioned. I would much rather have a president who uses foresight and reason vs. one who votes yes on legislation they know won't pass or conveniently changes his views to "pro-life" just to garner more votes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McMolly Okay. Now you're really annoying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BButrell
And you're a liar.
No. I honestly do believe you're annoying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BButrell
Geez, you ARE a Republican. Why bother with conversation? All you're going to do is change the definitions to change your BS agenda. You were lied to, and now you're spreading the same lie, and you have no problem with it.
Partial-birth abortion. Hee hee hee hee. Your friend hasn't been anywhere NEAR an abortion procedure and deep down, you know it.
Yes, I'm very proud to be a Republican along with all the values associated with that. I stated she was a nurse (retired now) who has seen many abortions at all stages of pregnancy including what I call "partial birth abortion" (admittedly I don't know the technical name for it, but I assure you she does).
She explained the process to a group of us several years ago, but I will never forget the look on her face expressing the horror she experienced in witnessing it. There is no reason for me to question this woman's honesty. She was a operating room nurse for 40 years and is now retired. Her memories are clear and so are mine.
I have no idea how you have anointed yourself as the ultimate authority on this subject. I'm certainly not and don't pretend to be, but I know what I feel. I know the truth when I hear it and I certainly know what a partial-birth abortion is. If it bothers you to read here how horrendous it is, then skip over it. I never asked you to agree with me.
I think the definition of "liar" rests firmly within the Democratic party and while you might love to shift that over to the Republicans, it's impossible to do. At least we have actual, existing proof of some of the lies the Democrats have told.
I almost hate to weigh in here because even though I am pro-choice I respect the opinion of those who are completely pro-life.
Although I find the topic of partial-birth abortion and post-birth abortion completely repulsive, I have to agree with Obama on this. He is an advocate for women's right to choose but he has NOT ADVOCATED for partial-birth or post-birth abortions in any way.
The wording of "the Born Alive Infant Protection Act" puts a woman's right to choose in jeopardy completely, which is not the intention. Until the wording is better refined to establish guidelines that don't infringe on all women's right to choose, even during the earliest weeks of pregnancy, the legislation should not and would not pass. Recognizing the need for legislation but knowing that the proposed bill was not acceptable and would not stand up to scrutiny, Obama has voted "present". This hardly merits him being labeled as a PROPONENT for partial/post birth abortions.
Furthermore, the fetus/baby that results from a botched abortion is not going to be a healthy full term baby. It is really sad, but in most instances, the kindest thing to do would be to not provide any medical care or quickly put an end to further suffering. How horrible it would be for the doctor who has to end it's life. But after working with doctor's for many years, I can tell you that many doctors feel equally horrible about saving a life whose quality of life is essentially nil and often painful. In the medical field they refer to this as a "bad save".
I worked in a state hospital with children who had IQ's of 2 or 3. That basically means they have a slight response to pain. Some were micro cephalic and others had anencephaly (no brain). They were fed through feeding tubes, needed eye drops every 30 mins. because of lack of a blink reflex, etc. Mercifully, their lives were usually cut relatively short.
Unless you are staunchly pro-life under all circumstances, there are no black and white answers. If abortion ever becomes illegal, botched abortions will be much more common with all the ensuing horrors mentioned. I would much rather have a president who uses foresight and reason vs. one who votes yes on legislation they know won't pass or conveniently changes his views to "pro-life" just to garner more votes.
Great post! Thank You for the insight and the FURTHERING/PROGRESSING/MOVING ON of the discussion......
I almost hate to weigh in here because even though I am pro-choice I respect the opinion of those who are completely pro-life.
Although I find the topic of partial-birth abortion and post-birth abortion completely repulsive, I have to agree with Obama on this. He is an advocate for women's right to choose but he has NOT ADVOCATED for partial-birth or post-birth abortions in any way.
The wording of "the Born Alive Infant Protection Act" puts a woman's right to choose in jeopardy completely, which is not the intention. Until the wording is better refined to establish guidelines that don't infringe on all women's right to choose, even during the earliest weeks of pregnancy, the legislation should not and would not pass. Recognizing the need for legislation but knowing that the proposed bill was not acceptable and would not stand up to scrutiny, Obama has voted "present". This hardly merits him being labeled as a PROPONENT for partial/post birth abortions.
Furthermore, the fetus/baby that results from a botched abortion is not going to be a healthy full term baby. It is really sad, but in most instances, the kindest thing to do would be to not provide any medical care or quickly put an end to further suffering. How horrible it would be for the doctor who has to end it's life. But after working with doctor's for many years, I can tell you that many doctors feel equally horrible about saving a life whose quality of life is essentially nil and often painful. In the medical field they refer to this as a "bad save".
I worked in a state hospital with children who had IQ's of 2 or 3. That basically means they have a slight response to pain. Some were micro cephalic and others had anencephaly (no brain). They were fed through feeding tubes, needed eye drops every 30 mins. because of lack of a blink reflex, etc. Mercifully, their lives were usually cut relatively short.
Unless you are staunchly pro-life under all circumstances, there are no black and white answers. If abortion ever becomes illegal, botched abortions will be much more common with all the ensuing horrors mentioned. I would much rather have a president who uses foresight and reason vs. one who votes yes on legislation they know won't pass or conveniently changes his views to "pro-life" just to garner more votes.
Guess your very insightful post did not "further" the discussion....
And you're still a liar. Let's look at your words, because I enjoy calling you out on your crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McMolly
That said, however, to support either partial or post birth abortion should be unconscionable for any person no matter what their party. If you have ever had this act described to you (which it was to me by a nurse who has seen too many of them), you would never, could never, believe it's acceptable in any way, shape or form by any civilized society.
Which then became...
Quote:
As I said .... she has seen "too many". One is too many for God's sake!!!! I have no idea whether she's seen one, two or more.
Which THEN became...
Quote:
I stated she was a nurse (retired now) who has seen many abortions at all stages of pregnancy including what I call "partial birth abortion"
Keep changing your story. It amuses me.
Quote:
I know the truth when I hear it and I certainly know what a partial-birth abortion is.
If you did, you'd know that there's no such thing. Silly Republican.
From the American Medical Association:
(1) The term 'partial birth abortion' is not a medical term. The AMA will use the term "intact dilatation and extraction"(or intact D&X) to refer to a specific procedure comprised of the following elements: deliberate dilatation of the cervix, usually over a sequence of days; instrumental or manual conversion of the fetus to a footling breech; breech extraction of the body excepting the head; and partial evacuation of the intracranial contents of the fetus to effect vaginal delivery of a dead but otherwise intact fetus. This procedure is distinct from dilatation and evacuation (D&E) procedures more commonly used to induce abortion after the first trimester. Because 'partial birth abortion' is not a medical term it will not be used by the AMA.
From the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists:
The Act purports to ban so-called "partial-birth abortions;" however, "partial-birth abortion" is not a medical term and is not recognized in the field of medicine. The Act defines "partial-birth abortion" in a way that encompasses a variation of dilatation and evacuation (D&E), the most common method of second-trimester abortion, in which the fetus remains intact as it is removed from the woman's uterus. The Act's definition also encompasses some D&E procedures in which the fetus is not removed intact.
Are you enjoying this as much as I am? I sure hope so.
Last edited by BButrell; 08-16-2008 at 08:09 PM..
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