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Old 08-20-2008, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
1,556 posts, read 1,610,780 times
Reputation: 376
That's exactly how I feel Anifani821, thank you for posting those thoughts.
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:32 AM
 
3,293 posts, read 3,883,963 times
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There are many Christian African-Americans, who will think twice about voting for Barack Obama the baby-killer.

Killing babies is not part of any Christian Church.
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Old 08-20-2008, 09:38 AM
 
16,896 posts, read 22,566,171 times
Reputation: 12116
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingsOfGold View Post
Dumbo can only wish he could have two spawns that look like GW's.
Not sure chimpy could father anything but a disaster. Laura probably had a Democrat on the side.
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Old 08-20-2008, 09:42 AM
 
35,000 posts, read 21,643,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Not sure chimpy could father anything but a disaster. Laura probably had a Democrat on the side.
Well, she is a librarian.
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Old 08-20-2008, 09:47 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,805 posts, read 5,129,179 times
Reputation: 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
The abortion issue is the one thing that seems to rankle everyone in the USA, regardless of what one's political affiliation. It is a deeply personal issue. I have known quite a few young women who have struggled w/ the decision to have an abortion and it was not an easily made decision - not at all. Perhaps there are women who have multiple abortions and use it as a method of birth control, but I seriously doubt it. I have known parents who were very much against abortion, but when it came to their 17 y/o being pregnant, and having to decide what that would mean for her future life . . . they decided (as a family) on getting an abortion. These are moral people who have worried about the moral implications of those actions. I just don't think people take this issue lightly.

That being said . . . my feelings are - that personally - I am against having an abortion MYSELF - but I am very concerned about the health issues that are part of the discussion. I am older than many of you, and I marched in rallies to pass legislation to ALLOW abortions. Why? B/c I had friends in college who had gone out of state to get illegal abortions. And one nearly died.

You cannot legislate morality. Simple fact. But you can do what will promote the best health if someone is going to make that decision to terminate a pregnancy. All the shrill voices saying "Baby Killer" mean nothing when a woman knows her life cannot include having a baby. It is not up to ME to judge those reasons why she feels that way. And as far as the moral implications, that is b/n her and God, and is not b/n me and God. As a Christian, I feel the imperative is on the rest of us NOT TO JUDGE. Seems some people feel the imperative is on IMPOSING BELIEFS on others. So this is a place I disagree w/ pro-lifers, even tho I am very much a pro-Life person! I just don't believe it is up to me to legislate someone else's beliefs (and thus, limit their ability to get a safe, clean abortion).

The discussion about birth control is on the same lines as the discussion re: abortion. Unfortunately, none of us can insist on people using birth control. This is a personal responsibility issue, as some other posters have noted.

Here is something I have thought a lot about . . . and would like to know what others think. It seems to me that a state that can prohibit a "woman's right to choose" b/c of the "moral" aspects of abortion, could also prohibit a "woman's right to choose" as far as how many children she wishes to have. In other words, if you can tell me I can't abort a pregnancy, then can't you enforce that I MUST have an abortion? Just look at China - and you will see what concerns me.

The state should have no right to tell us who can and cannot get an abortion, who can and cannot have children . . . It is a complex discussion and it ends up getting emotional and mean-spirited so often . . . and people end up shouting their beliefs instead of looking at this as a welfare situation - what is best for society as a whole - and leaving decisions up to the individual, not the state.

Look at it this way. Abortion is a medical procedure. For those who wish to use that procedure, that is their decision and their business. Conversely, for those who do NOT wish to use that procedure, again - their decision and their business. Why should it bother one group what the other group decides?

And one more thought . . . if you add up how many abortions have been performed in this country since Roe v Wade was passed . . . doesn't that frighten you to think what will happen to young women who want to terminate their pregnancies - and have to resort to an illegal, backroom abortion? Isn't it just as important to make sure that young woman will not DIE due to infection or bleeding to death? Isn't protecting her right to get a legal abortion also recognizing her RIGHT TO LIFE? Or are you all ready to just throw her under the bus . . . and say - well, her decision, so what if she dies?

I don't know. It is a very complicated discussion, but it really should not be. It is complex b/c we put our own moral beliefs into the equation. How about we all step back and recognize - the whole world doesn't think like we do . . . and let people be responsible for their decisions. Some things are just b/n a person and his/her Higher Power, IMHO.
This has to be one of the most compelling arguments for moderation I have ever read. Level-headed and articulate--which is why it will go right over the heads of those who are fanatically anti-choice.

Wish I could rep you but I have to spread the joy.
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Old 08-20-2008, 09:49 AM
 
35,000 posts, read 21,643,948 times
Reputation: 6078
I dont actually understand the point of the OP's OP. S/he posted it here before, I dont see it around anymore, maybe it was moved or removed.

The "Black Genocide" link says: "The plans for promoting eugenics and the genocide of African Americans are well documented, but are virtually unknown in Black America. The early seduction of Black Americans by the Birth Control League and Margaret SangerŐs birth control programs have set into motion todayŐs dilemma which has undermined African America into itŐs position of apathy in pro-life activism. The efforts to continue the plans for eugenics and genocide have become more sophisticated and have expanded to achieve a global impact."

Abortion is not a tool of eugenics or genocide - ridiculous on its face. The Black Genocide website does not propose birth control or abstinence measures for women and girls at risk (that I saw, anyway, correct me if Im wrong). They also misattribute a particularly hateful statement to Margaret Sanger, as a means of upsetting their potential customers, AA churches - spreading a lying urban legend to further their own purposes, disrespecting their readers, the people they pretend to want to help.

I think this is a nonprofit in search of funding, myself.

Will the OP come back on and explain what is the reason for posting this "Black Genocide" business a second time?


Last edited by delusianne; 08-20-2008 at 09:59 AM.. Reason: more and more...
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Old 08-20-2008, 09:57 AM
 
21,002 posts, read 11,331,212 times
Reputation: 5898
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProudCapMarine View Post
There are many Christian African-Americans, who will think twice about voting for Barack Obama the baby-killer.

Killing babies is not part of any Christian Church.

It's pathetic that you can't/won't/ read some of the excellent posts here.


Now, why don't you do some research and you find out that many women who have abortions are CHRISTIANS.



aanifani : """and would like to know what others think. It seems to me that a state that can prohibit a "woman's right to choose" b/c of the "moral" aspects of abortion, could also prohibit a "woman's right to choose" as far as how many children she wishes to have. In other words, if you can tell me I can't abort a pregnancy, then can't you enforce that I MUST have an abortion? Just look at China - and you will see what concerns me. """


VERY good point!!!! And one more people should think about...



Who?Me?! """"You'd better start to worry when CHOICE is taken away.


Now, how do you propose to stop abortions???


Anyone???




And ,please, "ifs" don't count..... """"
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Yellow Brick Road
34,511 posts, read 40,003,623 times
Reputation: 17937
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProudCapMarine View Post
There are many Christian African-Americans, who will think twice about voting for Barack Obama the baby-killer.

Killing babies is not part of any Christian Church.
True. But what it seems many fail to understand is that our country recognizes a separation b/n church and state. This means whatever one's religious beliefs, legislation should not be enacted so that religious belief trumps individual rights.

Religious beliefs - and the practice of one's religion - is an individual right. Imposing those beliefs on anyone else is NOT a right and indeed, is prohibited by our Constitution.

Therefore, if a person believes that abortion is immoral and a sin, then she should not have an abortion.

For the person who does NOT believe it is a sin, or who decides to make her own peace with God (after all - churches are for sinners and God forgives sinners, right?) . . . then that is an individual decision that is legal.

What concerns me is . . . how divided our country has become over this issue, when it seems to me that this is a private issue and not one that should have people up in arms and screaming at one another over.

I find it very discouraging that my fellow Christians feel they need to make abortion the centerpiece of their religious fervor, when Christ should be the centerpiece. And Christ's most encompassing commandment to his followers was (and is) "Love your neighbor as yourself." We should not stand in judgment outside abortion clinics, harassing people who do not hold our beliefs. We should, rather, love them and accept them, whether we agree with their decisions, or not.

We spend so much time in each other's faces about Roe v. Wade, when Christ would doubtless ask us . . . is this how we show our love? Is this how we demonstrate forgiveness and what it means to forgive? ("Forgive our trespasses AS WE FORGIVE OTHERS).

We need to stop this shrill and mean-spirited debate about abortion in this country. We need to stop and examine ourselves and what it means to be a Christian. Religion is a personal matter and we do not live in a Theocracy. I thank God regularly in my prayers that America's forefathers were wise enough to recognize what could happen if we did not have separation of Church and State. This is a protection for ALL of us, no matter what our religion.

We are quick to say this country was founded on Judeo Christian beliefs. However, the fact that our founders chose any particular religious belief system (and actually, Deism was prominent amongst our founders) that doesn't mean that our laws should be based on religion rather than individual rights. Our Constitution guarantees those individual liberties.

We have lost sight of personal responsibility. It is not up to the State to dictate how I live my life . . .but neither is it up to any one religion or group of church members.
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Yellow Brick Road
34,511 posts, read 40,003,623 times
Reputation: 17937
How to encourage birth control? Well, it seems to me, if the AIDS crisis didn't scare the hell outta people so that they use condoms, what will? Personal responsibility aside, just knowing I might get AIDs would be enuff to make me either A. abstain from having sex or B. use protection.

Until segments of our society decide that having sex w/o protection is both a potential health issue (aids, and pregnancy itself) and a social issue (too many unwanted children) then nothing will change.

Let's face it. We have had about 40 years now of the birth control pill in this nation. All people have to do is pop a pill in order to not get pregnant. How much more simple can it be? And failing that, there are condom machines all over the place, as well as drugstores . . . and planned parenthood organizations willing to give them out as freebies to anyone asking for them . . .

It all comes down to personal responsibility.

Last time I checked, there is only one way to make a baby in utero. One has sexual intercourse. This is not a difficult concept, LOL. If you don't want to get pregnant, you don't have sex. If you want to have sex and don't want a baby, you use birth control. If you need birth control, there are places to get it free or at low cost.

Let's face it. People are having unprotected sex, even knowing full well that AIDs is all over the place . . . and knowing they can make a baby by having sex.

Anyone who has unprotected sex is playing Russian Roulette. I guess there are lots of people out there into gambling w/ their lives.

How do we change it? Teach your kids to use condoms. Or to get on birth control pills. Or to quit having sex!!! Maybe we should be issuing Chastity Belts instead of condoms.

Whatever the solution is - obviously mankind has not found it!

Last edited by anifani821; 08-20-2008 at 10:55 AM..
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
1,556 posts, read 1,610,780 times
Reputation: 376
<<<<BRAVO>>>> Ani
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