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Fine to squabble in anonymity here on C-D, but in the real world I feel that debates and discussions regarding McCain/Palin should be based on issues, not personal attacks. On the issues, we win, if we try to make it personal, we might not. Bob Herbert's wise words should be heeded if we want victory in November.
The high road is a dead-end. It just doesn't work when you're dealing with the lemming swing-voters that decide elections. These people are not voting on leaders, they treat this like the Political American Idol. Just another soap-opera to these rubes.
This is why the dems keep losing lately, because they're bringing flowers to a gunfight.
Gloves off, no holds barred, street politics. It's time to get dirty, and it's time to get even. These people want a political cage match, let's give it to them.
And in this big game, with the Democrats leading the Republicans by 20 in a game decided by Americans cheers and jeers, the last thing the Democrats need to do is throw a bomb into the end zone in the last few minutes, lest they anger the fans who overwhelmingly shift towards the defeated Republicans.
As hard as it is to not knock these people out, Americans respond to emotion, not issues, and to rub their noses in their own **** would be counter productive.
Do it on the issues, and the issues only. Its all that is necessary, Americans are still smart enough to know bad, and with Bush still getting 31% approval amongst low information types, they still know this country is in desperate need of change
Danny, I hope you are right, it's darkest before the dawn and I don't think it gets much darker than it is at this moment in time. I only hope that my fellow Americans feel the same way. My emotions seem to flow from optimism to cynicism, to despair, to anger and then back again on a regular basis because I cannot believe the bull being debated and covered by our "news" organizations, but all I can do is rely on the fact that people must realize that what they have done the past 2 times hasn't worked out so well and that maybe going the other way is neccesary to provide at least a little balance.
We shall see, I took off work on Nov 5th, I will either be celebrating or wallowing
Well, the way I see it, this entire battle is for 15% of those voters who vote both ways. Maybe that percentage is higher but since there are always going to be 30-35% of people to vote Republican (as they do it on ideology instead of issues) the battle is for those 15% who can think logically.
I'm afraid that a good many of these folks are the ones doing it on emotion, so you have to win that emotion, and humiliating your opponent is probably not good.
I think Democrats really underestimate the value of ridicule. Of laughing in the face of these jerks.. Just making fun of their stupid ideas. Don't be nice.
They started a needless war. They're trying to legislate your moral code for you.
Tell them to kiss your ass!!
Let me give you a small anecdotal story. I work in Texas with a large number of white 30 to 50 year old men. Few women. In close quarters. Most of these poor souls have bought into right wing talking points hook, line, and sinker. I sat there for years. Just listening to their stupid bull**** about Clinton running drugs out of Mena Akansas, black helicopters, Dems are communists, blah , blah , blah. Never said anything back hoping to be nice. If I did I just tried to argue a point here or there.
Well along comes this loud obnoxious guy from Wisconsin. Down to earth. Funny. Big beer drinker....One day he just goes off in his office talking to one of these right wingers. He yells I hate f***ing Republicans. They make me sick! Just ripping the hell out of them. You could hear him down the hall. This was no typical liberal.
Nobody said a word to him. Nobody challenged him. And this GOP right wing bull**** going around the office just stopped. That was the end of right wingers that day. Now everybody rips on the GOP.
Man, the Democrats need more of that type of guy. I wish we could clone him.
Last edited by padcrasher; 09-02-2008 at 08:58 PM..
"With last night's cheerfully vicious speeches from Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin, the Republicans did what they always do in order to win elections: they exploited raw cultural divides while mocking, belittling and demonizing Democratic leaders. Yet again, they delivered brutally effective and deeply personal blows to the Democratic presidential candidate grounded in the same manipulative and deceitful yet very potent themes they've been using for the last three decades.
Ever since Ronald Reagan's election, this is what the Republicans do every four years. They render issues irrelevant and convert campaigns into cultural wars and personality referenda. They converted our elections into tawdry reality shows long before networks realized their entertainment value. And every four years, Democrats seems shocked and paralyzed by all of this and desperately delude themselves into believing that mean-spirited "negativity" and nastiness will alienate voters, while the media swoons at the potency of these attacks. "
Compares the GOP's Convention to what happend at the Dem Convention just last week..
"More politically damaging still is the absence of any truly stinging attacks on John McCain. Even Joe Biden's speech -- billed as the "attack dog" event -- almost completely avoided any criticisms of McCain the Person, who will emerge from the four days here as a Wonderful, Honorable, Courageous Man -- a friend to Democrats and Republicans alike -- who just happens to be wrong on some issues. The Republicans will spend the next four days mercilessly ripping Barack Obama's character to shreds, as they did to John Kerry in 2004. . . .
The GOP's attacks on Kerry in 2004 were mocking, scornful, derisive, demonizing and deeply personal -- in speech after speech -- and they were also highly effective. They weren't the slightest bit deterred by the fact that Kerry was a war hero who was wounded multiple times in Vietnam while George Bush and Dick Cheney. . . . weren't. Has there been anything remotely approaching those attacks on McCain by any of the prime-time Democratic speakers?
Last edited by padcrasher; 09-04-2008 at 10:02 AM..
I do agree with much of what Greenwald wrote, I'm not so convinced that the normal viciousness of the Republican party will win out this time though, and I'm certainly not convinced that if we try to take the campagin away from the issues towards personal attacks, that we will win in November. I'm a football fan and the season starts tonight, so I'm going to use a little sports metaphor. Certain teams play a very aggressive defense game, they score points off of their defense and that's how they win games. Other teams play strong offense and they win games by throwing the ball. Both teams can win using their own gameplan, but if one team decides to try to win using the other teams gameplan, they will most likely lose because this is not the game they are used to playing.
I do understand the frustrations, believe me!, to hear those hypocrites speak about putting country first and mocking community organizers and trying to act like they are the ones who want to help the middle class, it makes me want to scream (or type) but I'm more worried that if we go off message, the Rovesters will prevail.
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