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Old 09-04-2008, 12:45 AM
 
11,128 posts, read 12,382,175 times
Reputation: 3668

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For many months I have heard how Democratic Party faithful have droned on about the almost messianic qualities of an Obama speech. Much like sitting in church, listening to the pontifications of an overly confident minister that is a natural for the clever turn of a word.

The response to this from the opposition is as many months of how words and speech's mean little and it is all about experience, experience, experience.

Then, in a single night, in a single speech from a relatively unknown person (at least outside GOP circles) we see the very exact same thing take place. Before you know it, the party faithful are flopping around in the aisles, talking in tongues, hands raised in praise and joyous rapture of the second coming of Reagan in pantyhose.

When the issue of experience is yet again raised, it falls upon deaf ears, as after all, she is attractive and can pronounce multi-syllable words and speaks in complete recognizable sentences and that is all that matters.

I am once again drawn to the words of Plato as paraphrased by William Durant:
(emphasis is mine)
Quote:
Every form of government tends to perish by excess of its basic principle. Aristocracy ruins itself by limiting too narrowly the circle within which power is confined; oligarchy ruins itself by the incautious scramble for immediate wealth. In either case the end is revolution. When revolution comes it may seem to arise from little causes and petty whims; but though it may spring from slight occasions it is the precipitate result of grave and accumulated wrongs; when a body is weakened by neglected ills, the merest exposure may bring serious disease. "Then democracy comes: the poor overcome their opponents, slaughtering some and banishing the rest; and give to the people an equal share of freedom and power".
But even democracy ruins itself by excess–of democracy. Its basic principle is the equal right of all to hold office and determine public policy. This is at first glance a delightful arrangement; it becomes disastrous because the people are not properly equipped by education to select the best rulers and the wisest courses. "As to the people they have no understanding, and only repeat what their rulers are pleased to tell them" (Protagoras, 317); to get a doctrine accepted or rejected it is only necessary to have it praised or ridiculed in a poplar play (a hit, no doubt, at Aristophanes, whose comedies attacked almost every new idea). Mob-rule is a rough sea for the ship of state to ride; every wind of oratory stirs up the waters and deflects the course. The upshot of such a democracy is tyranny or autocracy; the crowd so loves flattery, it is so "hungry for honey," that at last the wiliest and most unscrupulous flatterer, calling himself the "protector of the people" rises to supreme power. (Consider the history of Rome.)
The more Plato thinks of it, the more astounded he is at the folly of leaving to mob caprice and gullibility the selection of political officials–not to speak of leaving it to those shady and wealth-serving strategists who pull the oligarchic wires behind the democratic stage. Plato complains that whereas in simpler matters–like shoe-making–we think only a specially-trained person will serve our purpose, in politics we presume that every one who knows how to get votes knows how to administer a city or a state. When we are ill we call for a trained physician, whose degree is a guarantee of specific preparation and technical competence–we do not ask for the handsomest physician, or the most eloquent one; well then, when the whole state is ill should we not look for the service and guidance of the wisest and the best? To devise a method of barring incompetence and knavery from public office, and of selecting and preparing the best to rule for the common good–that is the problem of political philosophy.
When I listen to both Obama and McCain and their dedicated following, I look to this and see both.
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,646 posts, read 13,622,012 times
Reputation: 1679
I see the winner chosen, and the play needing only, to play itself out.

We were warned in
Washington's Farewell Address 1796
No one listens anymore.We are resigned to the play until the final act.
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:09 AM
 
11,128 posts, read 12,382,175 times
Reputation: 3668
Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
I see the winner chosen, and the play needing only, to play itself out.

We were warned in
Washington's Farewell Address 1796
No one listens anymore.We are resigned to the play until the final act.
I am just amazed at the effect giving a single speech has on people, one way or the other. As Ben Franklin once said, "Well done is always better than well said".

Last edited by TnHilltopper; 09-04-2008 at 01:22 PM..
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:13 AM
 
12,620 posts, read 17,702,321 times
Reputation: 2988
Well I dont see Sarah Palin or John McCain wanting a stadium in which to speak!
I don't see them going before bands at a FREE rock concert in another country and speaking to them and saying they were there to see him which is a lie they were there for the free concert!
Shall I go on about Obama!

There are clear differences between Obama and McCain tonight when asked of a Obama man what executive experience he had the man said the same as McCain which is a fallacy Obama has 1 term in office in which he may have worked the next 2 were on the campaign trail and so on so quote plato and whoever else you like the facts are the facts!
Your assumption of people who heard he speak and like what we heard is not going to be belittled by you or anyone else because she rocked!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:17 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
789 posts, read 1,170,258 times
Reputation: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
For many months I have heard how Democratic Party faithful have droned on about the almost messianic qualities of an Obama speech. Much like sitting in church, listening to the pontifications of an overly confident minister that is a natural for the clever turn of a word.

The response to this from the opposition is as many months of how words and speech's mean little and it is all about experience, experience, experience.

Then, in a single night, in a single speech from a relatively unknown person (at least outside GOP circles) we see the very exact same thing take place. Before you know it, the party faithful are flopping around in the aisles, talking in tongues, hands raised in praise and joyous rapture of the second coming of Reagan in pantyhose.

When the issue of experience is yet again raised, it falls upon deaf ears, as after all, she is attractive and can pronounce multi-syllable words and speaks in complete recognizable sentences and that is all that matters.

I am once again drawn to the words of Plato as paraphrased by William Durant:
(emphasis is mine)


When I listen to both Obama and McCain and their dedicated following, I look to this and see both.
I couldn't have said it better myself. People are sheep.
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:22 AM
 
11,128 posts, read 12,382,175 times
Reputation: 3668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
Well I dont see Sarah Palin or John McCain wanting a stadium in which to speak!
I don't see them going before bands at a FREE rock concert in another country and speaking to them and saying they were there to see him which is a lie they were there for the free concert!
Shall I go on about Obama!

There are clear differences between Obama and McCain tonight when asked of a Obama man what executive experience he had the man said the same as McCain which is a fallacy Obama has 1 term in office in which he may have worked the next 2 were on the campaign trail and so on so quote plato and whoever else you like the facts are the facts!
Your assumption of people who heard he speak and like what we heard is not going to be belittled by you or anyone else because she rocked!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you are missing the point. I'm not even talking about who said what, who is right or wrong, as I can find plenty on both candidates to fill a stadium.

The point is how people become mesmerized by mere words far more than deeds. This isn't a partisan thing and I can't state that any clearer.
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:23 AM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,136 posts, read 21,150,384 times
Reputation: 23168
I think this was a very successful night for McCain/Palin. I told my husband that McCain must be a chess player. He seems so innocent, yet his moves are brilliant. The Republicans would have been in trouble right after the Democratic convention and the Obama speech, but it was curtailed by the talk of McCain's VP pick and the news was not even complimentary. The most important thing that happened was to take the focus off Obama. Obama depends on this focus since he has nothing else. I think Obama's time is up. Rock stars fall fast when they are upstaged.
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:43 AM
 
12,620 posts, read 17,702,321 times
Reputation: 2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
I think you are missing the point. I'm not even talking about who said what, who is right or wrong, as I can find plenty on both candidates to fill a stadium.

The point is how people become mesmerized by mere words far more than deeds. This isn't a partisan thing and I can't state that any clearer.
I choose to listen and watch. a persons actions speak louder than words.
Sorry if I misunderstood your implication. But I think that there are many who choose to take the easy way out and only listen to the words and not the actions or deeds of said people and that follows true through out life outside the political arena as well for many.
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:59 AM
 
Location: Albemarle, NC
7,730 posts, read 12,455,609 times
Reputation: 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
I think you are missing the point. I'm not even talking about who said what, who is right or wrong, as I can find plenty on both candidates to fill a stadium.

The point is how people become mesmerized by mere words far more than deeds. This isn't a partisan thing and I can't state that any clearer.
The voting public has turned their mind over to the government and the media.
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Old 09-04-2008, 05:21 AM
 
3,353 posts, read 3,857,315 times
Reputation: 964
Excellent post, TnHilltopper.

Boy, is there going to be a fight. Palin is staying on the ticket, she'd have to have killed someone at this point for them to dump her. She gave Biden permission last night to go at her with full force. She also gave the media thanksgiving dinner in the sense that no stone will be left unturned in coverage of her. (because her criticism of the media is ridiculous - mainstream media (not bloggers) are merely doing their job)

Palin was good. Good reading a scripted speech from a teleprompter. She's tough - but can she stand her ground in an unscripted environment in which she's basically under cross examination (the debates)?

They're not going for Hillary supporters anymore, they don't care. She's as far right as you can get.

I think she's a great speaker, but condescending as hell. A newbie to national politics and she is condescending? Let's see how that plays out.

Either way, it's going to be a very bloody election season from here on in...
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