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Old 09-04-2008, 10:38 AM
 
Location: 32°19'03.7"N 106°43'55.9"W
9,374 posts, read 20,787,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gortamor View Post
I mentioned 'Christian' only because so many seem to go on and on about how Christian they are, but do not seem to believe in Christ's words - "What so ever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me."

To me is the mark of a secular civilised society that we take care of the weak among us. It is part of the 'social contract' to do so. And taking care of the weak could certainly fit under the 'general welfare' clause of your Constitution. What is the alternative? Leave these people to die or live in poverty - in this, one of the wealthiest nations on earth?

As to national defence - the war in Iraq had nothing to do with that - it was all about getting the oil.
I think that function is best left to the families of those in need. I think having money forcibly confiscated from one citizen and given to another citizen is akin to soft tyranny. Think of it this way: how would you feel if you entered your house one night, after a hard day's work, and you saw a perpetrator eating from your kitchen? When you confront that person, their response is merely: "I'm entitled". How would you take that? I'm afraid you'd take it the way most other people would: you'd call the police. Now, juxtapose that idea for a minute with the following: if you were to enter a restaurant and look at the menu, and instead of flat pricing, there was a 'graduated scale', of pricing, and you were forced to show your W-2 form before ordering, would you still do it, or would you walk out?
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:24 AM
 
350 posts, read 653,496 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421 View Post
I think that function is best left to the families of those in need. I think having money forcibly confiscated from one citizen and given to another citizen is akin to soft tyranny. Think of it this way: how would you feel if you entered your house one night, after a hard day's work, and you saw a perpetrator eating from your kitchen? When you confront that person, their response is merely: "I'm entitled". How would you take that? I'm afraid you'd take it the way most other people would: you'd call the police. Now, juxtapose that idea for a minute with the following: if you were to enter a restaurant and look at the menu, and instead of flat pricing, there was a 'graduated scale', of pricing, and you were forced to show your W-2 form before ordering, would you still do it, or would you walk out?
The time is well past when families can take care of those in need, mate. And some among us have no families at all.

A family - at least a working class or middle class one - cannot pay for thousands of medical bills, or a mortgage on a home if someone loses their job and cannot find work, or for the care of a disabled person with special needs. So, what do we do - I ask you again - leave them to die? Is that what a civilised and wealthy nation does?

Why is it those who oppose 'redistribution' of money when it goes downward - to help the weak among us, do not when it goes upward - to corporate welfare, or to the funding of an unnecessary war that had nothing to do with national defence?
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:31 AM
 
7,993 posts, read 12,856,042 times
Reputation: 2731
Quote:
Originally Posted by gortamor View Post
I mentioned 'Christian' only because so many seem to go on and on about how Christian they are, but do not seem to believe in Christ's words - "What so ever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me."

To me is the mark of a secular civilised society that we take care of the weak among us. It is part of the 'social contract' to do so. And taking care of the weak could certainly fit under the 'general welfare' clause of your Constitution. What is the alternative? Leave these people to die or live in poverty - in this, one of the wealthiest nations on earth?

As to national defence - the war in Iraq had nothing to do with that - it was all about getting the oil.
We, as a nation, should take care of the weak.....the handicapped, the mentally ill, the sick, the old, etc....

HOWEVER, this nation has developed a permanent underclass that is simply lazy and looking for handouts. Too many lazy disguised as weak. We should not take care of the lazy, welfare, Southside Chicago types that simply have no desire to work. We should give these types a swift kick in the ass.
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,458,946 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacredgrooves View Post
The war debt is a drop in the bucket compared to the everyday beaurocratic waste. The whole system needs to be overhauled.

Right! The better part of $1 trillion is a "drop in the bucket." Put down the crack pipe, please.

The USA might never recover economically from the illegal Iraq invasion and occupation. It increased the national debt, further debased the American currency, and increased dependence on foreign oil. This president has been a disaster for America.
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Texas
5,012 posts, read 7,870,090 times
Reputation: 5698
Quote:
Originally Posted by gortamor View Post
I mentioned 'Christian' only because so many seem to go on and on about how Christian they are, but do not seem to believe in Christ's words - "What so ever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me."

To me is the mark of a secular civilised society that we take care of the weak among us. It is part of the 'social contract' to do so. And taking care of the weak could certainly fit under the 'general welfare' clause of your Constitution. What is the alternative? Leave these people to die or live in poverty - in this, one of the wealthiest nations on earth?

As to national defence - the war in Iraq had nothing to do with that - it was all about getting the oil.
Where's the oil at?
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:56 AM
 
13,186 posts, read 14,972,499 times
Reputation: 4555
WATBs feeling sorry for those households having to pay slightly more taxes only on what they earn "OVER" $250K per year.

Cry me a river you greedy un-American scrooges.

Americans have been paying progressive income rates since the time people were getting around on horseback. It's nothing new.

But back then they didn't whine and cry about it.
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:58 AM
 
3,337 posts, read 5,117,119 times
Reputation: 1577
Quote:
Originally Posted by gortamor View Post
The time is well past when families can take care of those in need, mate. And some among us have no families at all.

A family - at least a working class or middle class one - cannot pay for thousands of medical bills, or a mortgage on a home if someone loses their job and cannot find work, or for the care of a disabled person with special needs. So, what do we do - I ask you again - leave them to die? Is that what a civilised and wealthy nation does?

Why is it those who oppose 'redistribution' of money when it goes downward - to help the weak among us, do not when it goes upward - to corporate welfare, or to the funding of an unnecessary war that had nothing to do with national defence?

Because that corporation will employ thousands of people who will then be able to earn money to take care of themselves instead of handing them money stolen from honest taxpayers.
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:01 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,187,987 times
Reputation: 3696
I don't like paying higher taxes anymore than the next person but I know that I would rather pay for our spending today than to put this burden on our children and grandchildren. I don't see this as patriotic, only moral.
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:02 AM
 
266 posts, read 402,389 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexianPatriot View Post
Where's the oil at?
In your vehicle, duh.

Obama is against drilling, did you miss that memo?

I am dumb founded by the lack of brains in some people.
You have to buy it from the Saudis since the US doesnt have enough in reserves to continue daily operations.

No oil means starvation to millions. He who has the last drop of oil will survive longer.
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:05 AM
 
13,186 posts, read 14,972,499 times
Reputation: 4555
Quote:
Originally Posted by gortamor View Post
Well, I would much rather see my tax money go to:
-help the elderly on fixed incomes
-help those who have lost jobs and whose unemployment has run out
-help those without any healthcare
-help those who are homeless
-help those who are in bankruptcy because of health care costs
-help the disabled
-help the returning soldiers

To me, is what a civilised society does (some might say - a Christian society), instead of wasting billions on an unnecessary war and giving tax breaks to the wealthiest 2%.

Thank you. New Rule. Every time a GOP politician cry baby talks about how unfair his taxes are. He must state what program he would cut to pay for his tax cut. (Never mind the fact Bush doesn't pay his bills already)

I'd love to see them slammed dunked when they mention cutting actual programs. They'd go the way of the Whig Party.
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