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Old 09-10-2008, 11:33 AM
 
1,555 posts, read 1,979,095 times
Reputation: 257

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Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
LOL if you are working 15 to 20 hours a day (is that even possible, I mean come on with the exaggerations) then that is really sad. However, its abnormal and Americans shoudln't need to work like they do in third world countries just to survive. Or is that where we're headed under 8 years of Republican mismanagement?
argh, wouldn't let me rep you again
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,254,467 times
Reputation: 4937
12/15 hours a day (or more) are not that uncommon for a business owner - not unusual at all.
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:09 PM
 
13,721 posts, read 19,254,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
12/15 hours a day (or more) are not that uncommon for a business owner - not unusual at all.
Very true!
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,159,948 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
Why is it that I don't recall this healthcare crisis when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s, where you got good quality care for reasonable prices. What has changed about this system.
I've explained that a dozen times, but it's worth explaining, so I'll do it again.

The biggest problem is that hospitals did not conform to Capitalist Theory. Two of the corollary theories of The Theory of Capitalism are Diversification and Specialization.

In the late 1970s, hospitals were on the verge of collapse and that was the best thing that ever could have happened to America. Hospitals were closing their doors forever left and right, filing for bankruptcy protection or merging with other hospitals to avoid filing bankruptcy or closing their doors forever.

If left unchecked and without interference, the majority of hospitals would have been forced to close or shut down many of their unprofitable departments in order to stay in business. That would have led to the creation of specialty clinics that offered high quality health care without the need for "health insurance."

Unfortunately, at the behest of the hospitals, "health insurance" companies stepped in and interfered with that process.

It worsened as hospitals began colluding to fix prices, and worsened further still when hospitals formed cartels to more efficiently collude and fix prices.

That isn't conjecture or speculation, it's fact.

2 years ago here, a group of doctors were planning to open a cardio-pulmonary clinic that would specialize only in open-heart surgery. They would have charged $13,000 to $24,000 less than the cheapest hospital in the area, but the two hospital cartels and their insurance lobby buddies ran to Columbus and rammed a bill through the legislature to out-law it.

Hospitals offer psychiatric services and it ain't cheap. You have Chief Psychiatrist, and Assistant Chief Psychiatrist, a Chief Resident-in-Psychiatry, plus a staff of resident psychiatrists, a head nurse, an assistant head nurse, plus the nursing staff, plus several dozen more CNA's, LPNs, diagnostic technicians and other staff members. Their salaries and benefits don't fall out of the sky.

If there are enough psychiatric patients to fund that department, fine. If they're aren't, the hospital just raises the prices of all other services it provides, then colludes with other hospitals so that they raise their prices as well, and so every one pays more than they should.

The same for "birthing centers." You have Chief OB-GYN, and Assistant Chief OB-GYN, a Chief Resident-in-OB-GYN, plus a staff of resident Ob-GYNs, a head nurse, an assistant head nurse, plus the nursing staff, plus several dozen more CNA's, LPNs, diagnostic technicians and other staff members.

They have 36 beds for newborns. There are 365 days in a year. That's 36 * 365 = 13,140 bed-days.

Unfortunately, there's only an average of 836 new births in the county each year. If each newborn spends 3 days in the hospital, that's 3 * 836 = 2,508 bed-days.

What does that mean? That means that most of the 36 beds go unused all year long and the hospital isn't making any money, plus don't forget there are several other hospitals that also have "birthing centers" with 20 to 36 beds for newborns.

Do you see the waste and inefficiency? That's why people pay $7,000 more for child-birth than they have to pay.

The hospitals should shut down their birthing centers and allow doctors to open small birthing clinics out in the suburbs with 6-8 beds. That would drop the cost of child-birth to about $1,700 to $2,300 instead of $9,300.

Health care costs will always remain high as long as hospitals exist.

For those who keep whining and sniveling about the fact that Europeans have national health care, they should study the facts more carefully. You can't have open-heart surgery in any hospital, only a select few. Likewise you can't go to just any hospital for arthroscopic surgery. You can only go to a select few. One of the ways Europeans manage their health care is by ensuring efficiency, and that means limiting equipment and services to meet the needs of the people.
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Grapevine Texas
45 posts, read 145,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
Very true!
I constantly work 12 hour days. I love what I do, but would work even more hours to increase my bottom line to cover healthcare.
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
1,577 posts, read 2,660,830 times
Reputation: 416
Mircea- Thanks for the information, very interesting. What you describe sounds like a monopoly. What I'm curious about your suggestion of free market capitalism is that what would prevent the clinics you mention from colluding in the same manner to drive up profits? If there are only 3 birthing centers in a city, they could conceivably agree to charge higher prices could they not? How would you suggest handling emergency care if hospitals are a bad thing?
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:55 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,458,172 times
Reputation: 4799
As long as they have no cushion in thinking they will get bailed out if they fail.....

Free market rules. Only the strong...willing to compromise...and commit to good service survive.

Will it ever happen....doubtful...
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:00 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 7,521,746 times
Reputation: 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
YES.. If you cant afford your bills where you live, YOU MOVE.. People move to find jobs, people move to find better schools, people move to live near (or away) from family, people move to other locations because the cost of living is lower, people move for better scenery, people move to get to the subburbs away from "crowed", why woudl they not move to buy health care.. Ooh I see.. the other things are so much more important then your health, and its so much easier to say that its fair to have me pay for your medical insurance because you WANT to live where you live..
First of all, if you have a really good financial advisor, I suspect you aren't contributing much if anything to anyone else's health insurance costs. Secondly, as CDF is in such large part a Relo forum, I doubt you're finding much of an audience who is ignorant of the fact that IT COSTS MONEY TO MOVE. You remind me of the people I have met who have never gone without anything to the extent that they honestly don't understand how anyone could not have money. I'd rather be dirt poor and have an understanding and empathy for other people than have all the money in the world and such a small mind and limited experience.
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:14 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,458,172 times
Reputation: 4799
So being able to thrive no matter what is a bad thing?

Every single decision you make in life has an immediate effect and most likely a long term effect.

If you can est. or guess those effects and changes then it's going to be hard to survive much less thrive.
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:50 PM
 
1,867 posts, read 4,078,118 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by chitowngal View Post
I constantly work 12 hour days. I love what I do, but would work even more hours to increase my bottom line to cover healthcare.
Do you woman! If you want to work like a third world person, more power to you. But if we all HAVE to do that just to get by and cover the basics like health care, then this country is truly going to hell in a hand-basket.

That means things are getting worse, not improving like they have for every other generation. Not a good sign .
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