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Every single Tea Party politician in the House voted against raising the debt ceiling and reopening the government. Every single one. How can you say with a straight face that no one connected with the Tea Party supported defaulting on our debt?
True, we would be able to make the interest payment. But a whole lot of other things would go unpaid.
The president, as part of the executive branch, cannot control what the House does.
For an answer to the rest of your question you'll have to ask the Speaker of the House. There were definitely enough votes in the House to avoid a government shut down, but he would not allow the chamber to vote on it, because that small group of Tea Party representatives didn't want him to. Why he allowed a minority to rule is something only he can answer. But he was the gatekeeper, and he effectively kept any vote that wouldn't go the Tea Party's way from coming to the floor until he had no other choice.
So you don't believe in the separation of powers? You think the president should be able to override the House and do whatever he wants? What country did you say you lived in?
You would never know that from all of the drama queen hand-wringing that went on from the right when they couldn't walk around a monument. And just how do you reconcile this action, which squandered $24 billion of U.S. taxpayer dollars on what amounted to little more than a temper tantrum, with the so call "fiscally responsible" conservatives behind the action?
I wouldn't say you are confused. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Again, no one from the Tea Party did or said anything that would have resulted in a default on United States bonds. That is a fact.
Y'know...I'm still confused...I thought that Obama "got health care passed" as president but when it comes to budget negotiations going sour then it's hands off "as president he has no control over what happens in the House".
Just like after claiming ownership of the health care law (even calling it 'Obamacare' himself) he is as hands off as can be about the crappy website.
So does he only take credit for the successes? Is that leadership?
And regarding the monuments during the shut down...who closed them again? The Tea Party?
Because Clinton kept them open during his shutdown.
I am confused. Mr. Obama only has presidential power to claim successes?
In fact, please help me with my confusion by answering this simple question:
Has president Obama ever taken credit for a policy initiative or action he championed that ultimately failed?
Defaulting on the debt, which means not paying for bills already incurred, and then calling that financial prudence is the absolute definition lunacy. That's not "slowing down the building of debt," that's refusing to pay our bills.
Shutting down the government because you don't get your way is not trying to live within a budget, that is incurring an additional $24 billion in debt because you don't get your way. There is absolutely nothing fiscally prudent in that action.
One thing we agree on, I, too, don't know why this is so confusing to you.
Silly liberal, economics are for sane people!
You obviously have no clue what defaulting on debt or the debt ceiling is.
The debt ceiling being raised is like calling up your credit card company and saying hey I can't aford to pay the debt I have on this card now so why don't you raise my credit limit so that I can continue to use the card to spend anyway. That's exactly what the federal government does when it raises the debt cieling. if they continue to raise it time and again and the national debt continues to grow sooner or later the people/countries we owe that debt to will call us on that debt and we WILL default on it. the Tea Party understands this. obviously you and the hack politicians in Washington don't.
Another thing you keep throwing around this 24 billion number that the Tea Party supposedly cost this country yet you have absolutely nothing to say about the 17 trillion dollar debt that the establishment politicians have run up. 17 trillion is roughly 708 times more than 24 billion. How exactly is the Tea Party the worst group of people in Washington when the establishment politicians are currently running up a debt that we will mostlikely never be able to pay back?
To say nothing of the downgrade of the U.S. credit rating that would have come on the heels of not raising the debt ceiling. None of which the Tea Party gave a damn about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10
Y'know...I'm still confused...I thought that Obama "got health care passed" as president but when it comes to budget negotiations going sour then it's hands off "as president he has no control over what happens in the House".
I take it back, you really are confused. The president didn't "get healthcare passed," Congress did. You need to go back to 8th grade and study the Constitution. You really have no understanding what the different branches of government do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10
And regarding the monuments during the shut down...who closed them again? The Tea Party? Because Clinton kept them open during his shutdown.
No, despite the lies the rightwing media fed you, monuments and parks were closed during the Republican shutdown of 1995, too. Note, both of the stories in the two links below were written before the shutdown in October began. They were recaps of what happened in 1995, so people would be prepared for what was about to happen again.
The last government shutdowns were grim times. [...] While zookeepers continued to feed the pandas, the National Zoo in Washington, D.C., was closed to the public. So was the Washington Monument, the Lincoln Memorial and 368 national park sites, which resulted in the loss of some seven million visitors.
With a federal government shutdown, padlocks are expected to begin going up Tuesday at the gates of hundreds of national parks across the United States from Alcatraz Island in San Francisco Bay to the Washington Monument. Thousands of visitors will be sent home, and local businesses will suffer.
And if history is any guide, closing America's most scenic and beloved places won't go over well with the public.
During the last government shutdown, for 28 days in 1995, national park closures sparked waves of angry calls to Congress and the White House.
Heyjude can't answer the points I raised because he know's I'm right.
Intellectual cowardice, pretty much describes the left.
No, I didn't bother with your posts because your points are nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon5
The debt ceiling being raised is like calling up your credit card company and saying hey I can't aford to pay the debt I have on this card now so why don't you raise my credit limit so that I can continue to use the card to spend anyway.
No, not raising the debt ceiling is like running up a lot of bills and then saying, hey, credit card company, I regret running up these bills up so I've decided not to pay them. And then you tank your credit rating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon5
Another thing you keep throwing around this 24 billion number that the Tea Party supposedly cost this country yet you have absolutely nothing to say about the 17 trillion dollar debt that the establishment politicians have run up.
Ah, yes, so let's tack on another $24 billion for no reason, because that's a great, sensible solution. As I said, your points are nonsense. And I'm not a "he."
No, I didn't bother with your posts because your points are nonsense.
No, not raising the debt ceiling is like running up a lot of bills and then saying, hey, credit card company, I regret running up these bills up so I've decided not to pay them. And then you tank your credit rating.
Ah, yes, so let's tack on another $24 billion for no reason, because that's a great, sensible solution. As I said, your points are nonsense. And I'm not a "he."
Raising the debt ceiling does not mean that we are going to pay for existing debt. It means we're going to add new debt on top of the existing debt. We can barely manage to pay the interest on the debt we have now let alone the principle. You obviously don't get this.
Like I said. You have no clue what you're talking about. But then again you support the status quo political establishment that got us to the 17 trillion in the first place so you have zero credibility to speak on matters of finance and economics. You, like just about everyone else in the government and liberal god Paul Krugman, are a Keynesian hack who lives in an alternate universe where all common sense and prgmatism has been sucked into some supermassive black hole.
I'm buying you a dunce cap for xmas. What is your favorite color?
To say nothing of the downgrade of the U.S. credit rating that would have come on the heels of not raising the debt ceiling. None of which the Tea Party gave a damn about.
Obama doesn't give a damn about the credit rating either since it was downgraded on his watch already (but hey, since that is a negative the buck will have to stop somewhere else, right? We both have already established that Obama only takes credit for successes.
I take it back, you really are confused. The president didn't "get healthcare passed," Congress did. You need to go back to 8th grade and study the Constitution. You really have no understanding what the different branches of government do.
I know the Constitution, most likely better than you. But according to EVERY campaign speech by Obama and Biden in 2011 and 2012 "Obama got healthcare passed". Again, the nickname isn't "Congresscare"; its "Obamacare™". So I took the men at their word, that is that they were responsible for Obamacare. But, of course, now that it is turning into a disaster it is all congress' fault.
No, despite the lies the rightwing media fed you, monuments and parks were closed during the Republican shutdown of 1995, too. Note, both of the stories in the two links below were written before the shutdown in October began. They were recaps of what happened in 1995, so people would be prepared for what was about to happen again.
The last government shutdowns were grim times. [...] While zookeepers continued to feed the pandas, the National Zoo in Washington, D.C., was closed to the public. So was the Washington Monument, the Lincoln Memorial and 368 national park sites, which resulted in the loss of some seven million visitors.
With a federal government shutdown, padlocks are expected to begin going up Tuesday at the gates of hundreds of national parks across the United States from Alcatraz Island in San Francisco Bay to the Washington Monument. Thousands of visitors will be sent home, and local businesses will suffer.
And if history is any guide, closing America's most scenic and beloved places won't go over well with the public.
During the last government shutdown, for 28 days in 1995, national park closures sparked waves of angry calls to Congress and the White House.
...to bring maximum pain to the American people (pawns in his game of "Spendocrat Chicken").
I doubt you will respond to the following but it is important for others to see what REALLY went on during Obama's shutdown:
Quote:
While our president still enjoys his essential employees and locations: the White House chefs, Camp David, and a military golf course, there doesn't seem to be any question that in mercenary pursuit of a political win, this White House is determined to unreasonably punish as many everyday people as possible. And this includes children sick with cancer. That might sound like hyperbole, but it is not.
Although Barack Obama's chefs have been deemed "essential," employees at the National Institutes of Health who offer last-chance experimental cancer treatments for children suffering from cancer have not. Worse still, House Republicans have offered to compromise with the president and single the NIH out for funding. The White House has threatened a veto.
Using children sick with cancer as pawns is community organizing on steroids. And the media are covering for him. When the media thought they could emotionally blackmail the GOP with these sick children, telling their story was all the rage. Now that it is Obama and Senate Democrats wrist-flicking refusing treatment for these children, suddenly the media aren't too interested in telling their story.
There are many other examples of this president's cold-hearted fanaticism and willingness to punish people for reasons that seem to have much more to with spite than what is and is not "essential." In fact, there are a number of examples where Obama seems to be spending more money and using more resources to close and block and inconvenience than to just leave it alone.
The media may or may not report on these individual occurrences, but what they will never do is provide the American people with the full context and scope of Obama's shrill pettiness.
Below is a list of illogical, unnecessary, and shockingly spiteful moves our government is making in the name of essential and non-essential.
This list will be regularly updated, and if you have something you feel should be added, please email me at jnolte@breitbart.com or tweet me @NolteNC.Please include a link to the news source.
-- 1. Treatments for Children Suffering From Cancer - The GOP have agreed to a compromise by funding part of the government, including the National Institutes of Health, which offers children with cancer last-chance experimental treatment. Obama has threatened to veto this funding. 2. The World War II Memorial - The WWII memorial on the DC Mall is a 24/7 open-air memorial that is not regularly staffed. Although the White House must have known that WWII veterans in their eighties and nineties had already booked flights to visit this memorial, the White House still found the resources to spitefully barricade the attraction.
The Republican National Committee has offered to cover any costs required to keep the memorial open. The White House refused. Moreover, like the NIH, the GOP will pass a compromise bill that would fund America's national parks. Obama has threatened to veto that bill. 3. Furloughed Military Chaplains Not Allowed to Work for Free - Furloughed military chaplains willing to celebrate Mass and baptisms for free have been told they will be punished for doing so. 4. Business Stops In Florida Keys - Although the GOP have agreed to compromise in the ongoing budget stalemate and fund the parks, Obama has threatened to veto that funding. As a result, small businesses, hunters, and commercial fisherman can't practice their trade. While the feds have deemed the personnel necessary to keep this area open "non-essential," the "enforcement officers" to ensure no business is done are "essential." 5. Obama Blacks Out Sports, Entertainment Programming to Overseas Troops - The American Forces Network (AFN) that provides American sports and entertainment programming to our troops stationed abroad, has been shut down. For some reason, though, AFN News will still broadcast news, just not any of the popular and fun stuff.
Camp David is essential, but popular programming for heroes overseas is non-essential. 6. Obama Closes D-Day Memorial - The GOP have offered to compromise and fund the National Parks. Obama has said he will veto this compromise legislation. As a result, along with 24 other military cemeteries, the D-Day memorial in Normandy has been barricaded. 7. Obama Tries to Close Privately-Funded Mt. Vernon - Although George Washington's Mt. Vernon estate is privately funded, the feds blocked visitors from entering the parking area because the Park Service maintains the lot. Apparently, the New Media publicity resulted in the feds backing down. 8. Obama Closes Over 100 Privately-Managed Parks That Cost No Money to Run - The U.S. Treasury actually makes money from the rent paid by a private company that "employs about 400-500 camp workers and managers across about a dozen states." No federal money is used to operate these parks. No federal employees are used to staff these parks. Taxpayers make a profit from these parks. Still, Obama had them closed and as a result 400-500 employees and a private business are taking it in the neck. 9. Obama Closes Self-Sustaining Colonial Farm It Hasn’t Supported Since 1980 - "For the first time in 40 years, the National Park Service (NPS) has finally succeeded in closing the Farm down to the public. In previous budget dramas, the Farm has always been exempted since the NPS provides no staff or resources to operate the Farm.” 10. Obama Tries to Close State-Run Parks in Wisconsin - "The park service ordered state officials to close the northern unit of the Kettle Moraine, Devil's Lake, and Interstate state parks and the state-owned portion of the Horicon Marsh, but state authorities rebuffed the request because the lion's share of the funding came from state, not federal coffers." 11. Obama Closes Vietnam Memorial - The GOP have passed compromise legislation that would fund national memorials and parks, and open them to the public. Obama threatened a veto. Apparently, the "essential" government employees are those erecting barricades, not those who could keep the memorial open. 12. Obama Closes Privately-Owned Hotel, Police Block Parking Lot - "The operator of a 51-room inn located on U.S. government-owned land in North Carolina abandoned his defiant stance on Thursday to keep the property open despite being ordered to close as part of the federal government shutdown."
October is this inn's prime season. The GOP have offered compromise funding opening the parks. Obama said he will veto that compromise.
State troopers blocked customers from entering the inn's parking lot. 13. Park Service Ranger: 'We've Been Told to Make Life As Difficult For People As We Can' - “It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.” 14. Obama Forces Residents Out of Private Homes - "The government shutdown is being felt close to home for some locals. They say they're being forced out of private homes on Lake Mead because they sit on federal land."
The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama has threatened a veto.
15. Acadia Park In Maine Shut Down - '"We’ve been training for two years at CrossFit for this hike — no kidding,” Hart said. She added that the shutdown should be as inconvenient for the Washington politicians who caused it as it is for average citizens.'
The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama said he will veto.
"Restaurant public relations director Molly Yun said they were notified there was a possibility a closure might happen, but they were allowed to remain open during the last government shutdown 17 years ago."
The restaurant is part of the federal park system, which the GOP have agreed to fund. Obama said he will veto the funding.
17. Obama Shuts Down a Road Tha Goes Through CO Park: "The Forest Service announcement, in turn, led the Pitkin County commissioners to order that Maroon Creek Road be shut down at the height of the colorful leaf-changing season. Ahead of what is to be one of the busiest weekends of the fall, the road is to be closed to vehicles at T-Lazy-7 Ranch, pending a resolution to the government shutdown."
The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama said he will veto that compromise funding.
18. Residents Plan Protest of Cape Hatteras Closing- "Businesses and residents on the Outer Banks have planned a peaceful protest of the closure of Hatteras Island's beaches due to the government shut down.
"The U.S. House Wednesday passed a measure to reopen national parks and monuments. It will now go to the U.S. Senate."
In the unlikely event the Democrat Senate passes the bill, Obama has threatened a veto of any compromise legislation opening the parks.
19. Obama Blocks People From LOOKING at Mt. Rushmore - "Blocking access to trails and programs at South Dakota’s most popular attraction was one thing, but state officials didn’t expect Congress’ budget stalemate to shut down a view of Mount Rushmore.
"The National Park Service placed cones along highway viewing areas outside Mount Rushmore this week, barring visitors from pulling over and taking pictures of the famed monument.
The cones first went up Oct. 1, said Dusty Johnson, Gov. Dennis Daugaard’s chief of staff. The state asked that they be taken down, and federal officials did so with some of them. The state was told the cones were a safety precaution to help channel cars into viewing areas rather than to bar their entrance."
20. Crucial USDA Websites Taken Down - "The U.S. Department of Agriculture has turned off its entire website in response to the government shutdown, leaving farmers, reporters and others with no way to access any of the agency's information online. …
"USDA's total website shutdown goes far beyond the response of other federal agencies, and seems to be part of an effort to make people feel the effects of the shutdown. Thursday morning calls to USDA's press office seeking an explanation were not answered."
This website is down and yet the ObamaCare and White House websites are up.
21. St. Louis Gateway Arch Closed - The GOP have agreed to compromise legislation funding the parks. Obama has threatened a veto. 22. Park Shutdown Bounces Rowers from Potomac - "The ripple effect of a government shutdown has pushed rowers from the Potomac River.
"Multiple high schools rent space at the Thompson Boat Center in Georgetown. But like other places controlled by the National Park Service, it closed Tuesday morning."
The GOP have agreed to compromise funding opening the parks. Obama has threatened a veto. 23. Thompson Boat Center Closed In DC - The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama said he will veto.
24. Obama Closes Military Commissary - "Military members, veterans and families who shop at local tax-free store are shocked to discover the store's doors locked; no progress to end stalemate in Washington."
While the government has deemed the White House chefs "essential," working class military personnel have lost their tax-free store privileges.
Military personnel and their families tell me that they have never lost these privileges in previous shutdowns. 25. Arizona Offers to Fund Grand Canyon, Obama Says 'Drop Dead'- "Obama has ordered the Grand Canyon to stay closed, even after the state of Arizona and local businesses have offered to cover the costs necessary to keep it open. In other words, the shutdown isn’t about the money — it’s about hurting the American people just because he can." 26. Amber Alert Website Taken Offline - CNN reported that bad press was a factor in the site going back up.
Why would White House chefs and Obama's golf course be categorized as "essential," while the government classified as "non-essential" the Amber Alert website?
Of course, this is the same Obama threatening to veto cancer treatments for children. 27. Miramar Air Show Canceled With One-Day Notice -“The emotional and economic impacts of losing this year’s event are great, and I’m extremely disappointed in the political dysfunction that brought us to this point,” Gloria said.
"Proceeds from the event go to programs that support families of military personnel, he said." 28. At Start of Peak Season, Shutdown Closes Peaks of Otter Lodge- "Although the Blue Ridge Parkway remains open to travelers, the Peaks of Otter Lodge cannot stay open while the National Park Service is not operating during to the government shutdown. With no Congressional compromise reached by the end of the day Monday, the lodge’s restaurant shut down and guests were given 48 hours to find somewhere else to stay."
The GOP have agreed to compromise and fund the parks. Obama has threatened a veto. 29. Federal Prison Guards Not Getting Paid, Inmates Are - "Most of the employees at the federal prison in Forrest City are working without knowing when they will get a paycheck because of the government shutdown, but some of the inmates who get paid for the work they do inside will have no problem collecting their money." 30. Family that Paid $2,000 for Permit Not Allowed to Raft- "Sorry for the inconvenience," it read.
That's when rangers told them they wouldn't be able to put in on the river the next day, despite having paid $2,000 for a permit to do so.
The news was shattering, Scott Lee said.
The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama has threatened a veto. 31. Although Privately Funded, Historic Ford's Theater Closed - "Ford's Theatre, which is a private non-profit 501(c)(3) organization, does not use any federal funding or federal employees for its performances. During previous government shutdowns, the theatre has continued performances." 32. King Crab Season Threatened by Government Shutdown - "The Alaska king crab season is set to start soon, but all the fishing boats will have to stay docked because the government must sign off on permits and quotas.
"Fisherman stand to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars unless lawmakers make a compromise."
Obama's golf course is open. So is the website for Michelle Obama's "Let's Move." 33. Children Might Lose School Lunches - "Minnesotans are adjusting to the partial government shutdown, but if it lingers too long, there is a chance the 300,000 kids who rely on free or reduced lunches at school could go hungry."
The White House chefs have not been furloughed. 34. Feds Shut Down Major Roadway, Puts Children's Lives at Risk - "Nearly a third of Blount County is inside the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. So when the federal government shut down the park, it also shut down one of the area’s chief sources of revenue.
"The children live in the eastern Tennessee community of Top of the World – serviced by School Bus 49. Normally, the bus travels along the Foothills Parkway. Other roads leading to the isolated mountain community are impassible by bus.
"“It’s dangerous,” said Nancy Kemp, the spokesperson for Blount County Schools.”It’s very curvy and straight up the mountain. It’s just not a safe route.”"
The GOP have offered compromise legislation funding the parks. Obama has threatened a veto.
35. Road to Brasstown Bald Closed During Peak Season - "It's not unusual for the road to the top of Brasstown Bald, the highest point in Georgia, to be closed in the winter months but in early October, with "leaf-looking" season just around the corner?
"The Georgia Department of Transporation (GDOT) announced Monday, though, that it is, in fact, closed. Why? At the request of the U.S. Forest Service and because of the government shutdown. The forest service operates the facilities on top of the mountain as well as the visitors center at its base."
The GOP have offered compromise legislation to open the parks. Obama has threatened a veto. 36. Columbia Island and Washington Sailing Marina Closed - Email from reader: "My husband received an email from WSM saying that boat owners could only go to their boats to remove items. If they leave the slip with their boat they are not allowed to return to their (paid for) slip the government re opens." 37. IRS Collections Operational, Taxpayer Advocate Office Closed - Per an email from reader. 38. Eleven Hundred Square Miles of Florida Ocean Closed - Email: "You omitted the ban on Florida charter boat captains taking fishermen into an 1,100 square mile section of ocean of the coast of Tampa. Apparently, government resources patrol it." 39. Iwo Jima Memorial Closed, Barricades Erected - "Another open-air memorial in the Washington area is closed and barricaded off: the Iwo Jima Memorial, just across the bridge from D.C. in Rosslyn, Virginia. A source sends along this picture of the barricade set-up at the memorial, which is also called the U.S. Marine Corps War Memorial." 40. Police Remove Vietnam War Veterans at Memorial Wall - "Via William Jacobson, NBC's affiliate in Washington, D.C. reports that police ordered tourists and Vietnam war veterans who were visiting the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall to leave the memorial at one point on Friday." 41. Shutdown Denies Death Benefits to Families of Fallen Soldiers - "The families of five U.S. service members who were killed over the weekend in Afghanistan have been notified that they won't be receiving the $100,000 benefit normally wired to relatives within 36 hours of the death. The “death gratuity” is intended to help cover funeral costs and help with immediate living expenses until survivor benefits typically begin."
42. Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown - "Some Catholic priests under contract or GS (general schedule) to the military are not allowed to offer the Catholic sacraments--including saying Mass, consecrating marriages, or performing baptisms--on military property during the government shutdown, and if they do, even on a volunteer basis, they risk being arrested, according to the general counsel for the Archdiocese for the Military Services, USA."
Meanwhile, the White House chefs, Obama's golf course, and the First Lady's "Let's Move" program remain essential. 43. Priest: Obama Admin. Denied Mass to Catholics - "Apparently, a priest was denied access to a military chapel this weekend. Father Ray Leonard serves at Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay in Georgia but because of the government shutdown, he wasn’t allowed to go to celebrate Mass this past weekend.
"He is contracted by the Defense Department to meet the spiritual needs of Catholics, but not now. The chapel doors were locked and the sign said, “Shutdown: No Catholic service till further notice.”" 44. Yellowstone: Tourists Locked In Hotel Under Armed Guard Thought They Were Under Arrest- "Vaillancourt was one of thousands of people who found themselves in a national park as the federal government shutdown went into effect on Oct. 1. For many hours her tour group, which included senior citizen visitors from Japan, Australia, Canada and the United States, were locked in a Yellowstone National Park hotel under armed guard." 45. Man Jogging in National Park Fined $100 - "A Pennsylvania man who went jogging in a national historic park was slapped with a $100 fine because the area was closed due to Washington’s budget impasse, he said Tuesday."
47. NIH Stops Therapy Dogs from Visiting Sick Children - "It should be noted that on the list of the top 1000 salaries in the federal government in 2011, 23 of the top 28 were officials at the National Institutes of Health; all made over $290,000 per year."
Obama doesn't give a damn about the credit rating either since it was downgraded on his watch already
True. Because the Tea Party took us to the brink then, too, threatening not to raise the debt ceiling, and as a result, the credit agencies no longer had confidence that Congress would be able to work together to ensure they kept the government solvent. The downgrade was a result of that. It's amusing that you claim to know the Constitution, yet you blame the president for the actions of Congress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10
But, why were national parks shut down by Obama?
But wait, you claimed that the parks weren't shut down during the Republican shutdown of 1995, which you were wrong about. Which should have clued you in to the fact that parks shut down when the government shuts down. It happened in 1995, it happened in 2013, and if the Tea Party decides to shut down the government again in January, they will be shut down again. And no doubt, you will express your astonishment at this again as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10
I doubt you will respond to the following but it is important for others to see what REALLY went on during Obama's shutdown:
If they Tea Party really was concerned that people would suffer if they shut down the government, they wouldn't have shut down the government. But the Tea Party doesn't care about anything in your list, and you know how we know this? Because they shut down the government. What did you think was going to happen when there was no money to operate these things, that they would continue on with no funding?
Here's a truth you need to learn--when you decide to shut down the government, STUFF GETS SHUT DOWN. I don't know why this seems to be such a difficult concept for those on the right to understand, but they continue to express bafflement that a shut down means just that.
And here's the kicker--the Tea Party is threatening to do it again in January. So please, by all means, tell us all how much they care about all of those things on your list when they are about to stick it to them all again. This should be good.
True. Because the Tea Party took us to the brink then, too, threatening not to raise the debt ceiling, and as a result, the credit agencies no longer had confidence that Congress would be able to work together to ensure they kept the government solvent. The downgrade was a result of that. It's amusing that you claim to know the Constitution, yet you blame the president for the actions of Congress.
I blame the president for not being a leader. Being a leader does NOT mean only taking credit for successes. Even Rush Limbaugh said he had to admit that Bill Clinton was an excellent leader compared to Obama. You never answered my question regarding ANY policy from Obama that he took responsibility for AFTER it failed.
But wait, you claimed that the parks weren't shut down during the Republican shutdown of 1995, which you were wrong about. Which should have clued you in to the fact that parks shut down when the government shuts down. It happened in 1995, it happened in 2013, and if the Tea Party decides to shut down the government again in January, they will be shut down again. And no doubt, you will express your astonishment at this again as well.
Once again, you ignore the facts and fail to address OVER 40 EXAMPLES of the president PURPOSELY and CYNICALLY using his shut down to hurt the American people to score political points.
Heck, at least address ONE example:
Quote:
5. Obama Blacks Out Sports, Entertainment Programming to Overseas Troops - The American Forces Network (AFN) that provides American sports and entertainment programming to our troops stationed abroad, has been shut down. For some reason, though, AFN News will still broadcast news, just not any of the popular and fun stuff.
Camp David is essential, but popular programming for heroes overseas is non-essential.
If they Tea Party really was concerned that people would suffer if they shut down the government, they wouldn't have shut down the government. But the Tea Party doesn't care about anything in your list, and you know how we know this? Because they shut down the government. What did you think was going to happen when there was no money to operate these things, that they would continue on with no funding?
Here's a truth you need to learn--when you decide to shut down the government, STUFF GETS SHUT DOWN. I don't know why this seems to be such a difficult concept for those on the right to understand, but they continue to express bafflement that a shut down means just that.
And here's the kicker--the Tea Party is threatening to do it again in January. So please, by all means, tell us all how much they care about all of those things on your list when they are about to stick it to them all again. This should be good.
Again, the president is completely helpless when it comes to matters of the government that he heads.
At least that is what his apologists keep trying to push.
He is the president. He is supposed to be a leader. Instead of shutting down the government why couldn't he just negotiate like Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy and all of the others before him.
How come he has all of the power to "kill bin Laden" and "save GM" (both things he and Biden took credit for repeatedly during the campaign) but none of the power to overcome the objections of several junior congressmen?
Once again, please answer this question:
Can you name ONE policy that the president took credit for in the "roll up the sleeves and travel all over the country to give speeches in support of it" phase of the policy push and then CONTINUED to take credit for said policy once it started to fall apart?
Just. Name. One.
Or are you checkmated?
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As I said, your points are nonsense. And I'm not a "he."
