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Old 09-15-2008, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Assisi, Italy
1,851 posts, read 2,903,411 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
Instead of the partisan BS, lets point the finger at the real problem:

-The Federal Reserve
-The POTUS (Bush, AND Clinton)
-Congress
I wouldn't let Wall Street off the hook as well as the "trusted" local realtor. Heck, most of us can just look in the mirror and point at ourselves.
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:15 AM
 
3,964 posts, read 2,055,869 times
Reputation: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob The Builder View Post
I wouldn't let Wall Street off the hook as well as the "trusted" local realtor. Heck, most of us can just look in the mirror and point at ourselves.
Absolutely true...my mind was focused on elected officials and government agencies...was being short sighted, thanks for the correction.
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:16 AM
 
5,527 posts, read 5,963,669 times
Reputation: 1827
The market has dropped more than this on a "normal" day. BOA once again bails out a floundering company (DAMN THEM.......THEY OWN EVERYTHING!!!) and the market takes a hit. I am sure it will recover within the next few days and then drop again.

People are getting scared for no reason. Once people think they are going to be poor in 6 months, they stop buying stuff. Once people stop buying stuff companies lose money and are forced to downsize, restructure or file Chap. 11 Once that happens unemployment rises, them market drops and people are "poor". It's a self fulfilling prophecy, just like Oil speculating. If people stopped watching the news and went on their daily lives like usual they would be fine. The only REAL issue is gas/oil and what to do about it IMO.
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:31 AM
 
56,251 posts, read 28,057,614 times
Reputation: 7079
Quote:
Originally Posted by songgirl View Post
I disagree that it was ever psychological. That's just baloney the GOP tried to perpetuate.

The housing COLLAPSE affects a way larger # than 00.2%. The banks are so backlogged that most people facing foreclosure are only in the beginning stages of the process. Many more to come in the following months.

Furthermore, we are all being affected. Huge losses in equity. Huge losses in revenue for schools causing major cutbacks, loss of job creation when unemployment is at a 5 year low, etc.
The housing collapse has affected equity in individuals homes, but thats it, and what does it matter if your equity is affected unless one cashed out and maxed out their homes to spend elsewhere?

In housing, you dont lose money when a drop of equity takes place, you only lose money when you sell your property after that drop takes place. Many americans are rushing to list their homes for sale because "it lost value". I have full streets around here with almost 1/2 of the homes for sale, because people are all rushing to try to "cash out while they can", instead of just continuing to pay their mortgage like they always have. Its not like they can move and stop making a payment somewhere..

Its an imaginary loss, it doesnt exist, unless a home owner forces themself to accept the loss and move on by selling at the loss..

Loss of jobs? You mean that 6.1% unemployment mark that actually is still rather good compared to what it used to stand? What loss revenue for schools? Even if a home is in foreclosure, the banks make the school tax payment. There is no loss of revenue.
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:36 AM
 
56,251 posts, read 28,057,614 times
Reputation: 7079
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
People are getting scared for no reason. Once people think they are going to be poor in 6 months, they stop buying stuff. Once people stop buying stuff companies lose money and are forced to downsize, restructure or file Chap. 11 Once that happens unemployment rises, them market drops and people are "poor". It's a self fulfilling prophecy, just like Oil speculating. If people stopped watching the news and went on their daily lives like usual they would be fine. The only REAL issue is gas/oil and what to do about it IMO.
Same thing happenign with the housing crisis. Guy buys a home last year for $150,000, neighbors A home sells for $130,000 this month, and guy sees their neighbors home sell for $130,000, and thinks.. Wait, my home value just dropped $20,000, I better sell mine now while I can, and they list their home for $125,000 to unload it "quickly" beating the rush to sell, they sell their home for $120,000, and neighbor B goes, wait, they sold their home for $120,000, I better list my home and sell it now because I see the homes drop from $130,000 to $120,000 in months, I better list my home for $115,000..

Endless cycle, meanwhile if people would have just held onto their home, they would not have needed to spend a dime and would not have lost anything. After all, they end up selling their homes and going to rent, for the same amount they paid to own their home.

I have several streets near me, that have 1/2 the homes on the market, they are all rushing to sell, all lowering their prices to compete against "their neighbors" trying to all unload now..
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:19 AM
 
4,184 posts, read 3,829,774 times
Reputation: 1681
Quote:
In housing, you dont lose money when a drop of equity takes place, you only lose money when you sell your property after that drop takes place. Many americans are rushing to list their homes for sale because "it lost value". I have full streets around here with almost 1/2 of the homes for sale, because people are all rushing to try to "cash out while they can", instead of just continuing to pay their mortgage like they always have. Its not like they can move and stop making a payment somewhere..
No one is forced to sell their house and realize a loss unless:

1. they got into ARMs and can no longer afford the rising payments, so they have to refinance but can't do so because of declining home values

2. they lose their jobs and can no longer afford the mortgage payments; with unemployment rising, this is not an uncommon scenario

3. they get sick and can't work (see number 2)

4. divorce

These are not uncommon reasons that will push homeowners to sell their homes.
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:39 AM
 
5,271 posts, read 2,967,775 times
Reputation: 1606
Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
After Frantic Day, Wall St. Banks Falter
September 14, 2008

"In one of the most dramatic days in Wall Street’s history, Merrill Lynch agreed to sell itself on Sunday to Bank of America for roughly $50 billion to avert a deepening financial crisis, while another prominent securities firm, Lehman Brothers, announced it will file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy."

Bank meltdown wallops campaigns
September 14, 2008

"Until now, the crisis seemed like a confusing Wall Street story. That all ended with the fast-moving events of Sunday, which The New York Times called “one of the most extraordinary days in Wall Street’s history.” A CNBC special report on Sunday night called it “a complete realignment of Wall Street.”

And that was before the extraordinary 9:30 p.m. announcement by the Federal Reserve of new efforts to shore up markets.

So it’s no longer an insider's game. The crisis is now at a tipping point where Wall Street will visibly affect Main Street: Home buyers, consumers and entrepreneurs will have even more trouble getting credit, slowing the nation’s job machinery."


Whoa

The next President has got one heck of a job ahead of him, and Senator McCain's judment in selecting Governor Palin just doesn't instill the confidence that they'll have the required competence or skill to navigate this mess. If you can take four more years have at it.....in the meantime - Calling Senator Obama, Senator McCain has already admitted he doesn't understand the Economy. We'll take those plans now.



Right, Obama who has had HUGE money from these folks and Biden who is in bed with THE CREDIT CARD COMPANIES!!
They understand alright!
MCCAIN/PALIN!!!
The real agents for change!!!
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:42 AM
 
5,271 posts, read 2,967,775 times
Reputation: 1606
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
disadvantage obama.. Who admits that even his own organizing in chicago was a failure.

What in the world has obama done that was successful? Anyone?

nothing
zero
zip
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,647 posts, read 8,870,636 times
Reputation: 1671
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
The market has dropped more than this on a "normal" day. BOA once again bails out a floundering company (DAMN THEM.......THEY OWN EVERYTHING!!!) and the market takes a hit. I am sure it will recover within the next few days and then drop again.

People are getting scared for no reason. Once people think they are going to be poor in 6 months, they stop buying stuff. Once people stop buying stuff companies lose money and are forced to downsize, restructure or file Chap. 11 Once that happens unemployment rises, them market drops and people are "poor". It's a self fulfilling prophecy, just like Oil speculating. If people stopped watching the news and went on their daily lives like usual they would be fine. The only REAL issue is gas/oil and what to do about it IMO.
Gotta love BOA.

The real issue is inflation.

A lot of folks purchased homes they couldn't afford. The blame has been spread around, and to a great extent, it's fair where it lands. There were agents who didn't represent the clients best interests, mortgage brokers who didn't represent the clients best interests, clients who didn't educate themselves, and lenders and investors who relaxed the guidelines for the almighty dollar. In the end the credit market continues to contract, the Banks see massive failure as complex derivatives continue to lose value on a Global market, investors as Nations continue to lose confidence in the dollar, companies tighten up and run lean because consumers are no longer consumers. Pretending foreclosures don't affect the overall market is just ridiculous. It may affect you less because you aren't inclined to sell, that's good - it's the safest route to take right now. Realistically it affects us all through inflation and in the tax base.

The necessary market correction is taking place and some folks are going to get hurt. As the home ownership rate returns to where it was before the boom, the market will flush out the unsustainable part of that era. A lot of folks bought homes they couldn't afford with mortgages they didn't understand and they did this with little to no equity, and now they wish to sell. Your home is a piggy bank, not a slot machine - big difference.

Like someone mentioned above, it's a great time to buy, however the pool of buyers with the discretionary income to do so, in today's credit market will find this much more challenging, and many would rather wait, than buy a depreciating asset. The great thing about housing as an asset is it's unique ability to pay the investor 4 different ways, stock - one.

The cycle leads back to two places in the end - the US Citizen who will ultimately foot the enormous bill, and her Government, who will implement policy to do collectively what we cannot do as well individually. Personally, I prefer a candidate who realizes there is a problem, and has been discussing the problem, and is not just jumping on the bandwagon after the problem reveals itself to the lowest common denominator. We've already had one President who strokes our ego and says everything's gonna be allright, give us someone who'll tell us the truth, demad activism, encourage participation, discuss responsibility, encourage responsible regulation, and change course. The 10% gamble awaits, I'm certain Vegas has a welcome mat fully rolled out.
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:18 AM
 
Location: on an island
13,321 posts, read 29,621,338 times
Reputation: 12632
Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
Personally, I prefer a candidate who realizes there is a problem, and has been discussing the problem, and is not just jumping on the bandwagon after the problem reveals itself to the lowest common denominator.
Me too. I understand that a correction needs to take place, but I would hate to see the nation lose its way.
Quote:
We've already had one President who strokes our ego and says everything's gonna be allright, give us someone who'll tell us the truth, demad activism, encourage participation, discuss responsibility, encourage responsible regulation, and change course. The 10% gamble awaits, I'm certain Vegas has a welcome mat fully rolled out.
And here is John McCain today, saying the fundamentals of the economy are strong. That's just not what I'm seeing.

John McCain, Sept 15
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