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Old 09-15-2008, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Idaho Falls
5,027 posts, read 5,524,981 times
Reputation: 1479

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Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
The Daily Kos -- it's a salacious blog run by a Newsweek writer and supported by the DNC establishment; so much so that Howard Dean on down attend the annual Daily Kos convention. Google it if you don't believe me.

The Daily Kos was responsible for creating the smear that Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby is really her grandson and she was covering for her daughter. They MADE UP THE WHOLE THING and the MSM all reported on this.
That's one example. Thank you. We're up to two.

However, it was posted by a diarist. So it's sort of like pointing to a single poster here at CDF. The rest of the mainstream liberal blogosphere ignored it, including Kos.

Would you like me to point out how nearly all the mainstream conservative columnists have run with the "Obama is a muslim" theme?

It would be nice to have some examples that extend beyond one diarist.
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,646 posts, read 13,893,120 times
Reputation: 1679
SGrey is right, the Republicans have cornered the market on name calling, and branding in general, I happen to disagree however on facts. Facts when hammered effectively with a pointed return to "you still didn't answer the question" produces the desired result in most cases, as evidenced recently in a few notable media venues. Typically the desired result is produced - sputtering, loss of control, anger, spin and/or downright foolishness as the questioned is exposed by just plain old make something up - Talented questioners just repeat said formula and wait. The problem with the media is they don't allot the time required to actually discern the truth, so we're left with the last quip of the liar, spinmaster, garbage spewer.
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,646 posts, read 13,893,120 times
Reputation: 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by idahogie View Post
i

I agree. Although I think both parties have drifted away from truly representing the individuals who make them up (as TnHilltopper pointed out). It's just that the GOP has drifted a lot further.
When a Republican can tell me he stands for limited Government not against "big Government" and can explain the difference between the two, I'll recognize him as a truer sense of what I know a Republican stands for.

The battle cry that the liberals just want to tax everyone, run up the debt and deficit spend us all into oblivion is forever spoiled for those who claim the brand in the normal sense, and I would as soon drink from a toilet then have to them push that garbage across the table....... the water would be easier to swallow.
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,062 posts, read 16,182,498 times
Reputation: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by idahogie View Post
That's one example. Thank you. We're up to two.

However, it was posted by a diarist. So it's sort of like pointing to a single poster here at CDF. The rest of the mainstream liberal blogosphere ignored it, including Kos.

Would you like me to point out how nearly all the mainstream conservative columnists have run with the "Obama is a muslim" theme?

It would be nice to have some examples that extend beyond one diarist.
Uh, you're forgetting that the Kos is administered by a bonified political journalist from Newsweek. Why did he leave that trash on his site? In fact, he had updates, pics and the whole nine yards. The MSM RAN those Daily Kos pics and announced the stories on the news.

Have you seen the MSM announcing that Obama is a Muslim on the news, based on the scandal blog reports? No.

We also had the New York Times insisting that Sarah Palin was a longstanding member of a separatist group. It was false and they had to print a retraction. Same with the "rape kit" charges; the assertions that she fights against birth control (when she's a member of Feminists for Life who support birth control); the charges that she wants to replace evolution with creationism and she doesn't believe in global warming. All false.

You don't see a smear campaign here or do you just simply want to believe it all? And are you naive enough to believe that in just 2-3 days the MSM assembled all of this crap by themselves, without Dem. operatives "suggesting" it?
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,062 posts, read 16,182,498 times
Reputation: 3701
Oh, and just for giggles, read your pal Norcalmom's post entitled "Palin will cure cancer!" and all of the disparaging comments in that thread. Is that not taking a serious topic and turning it into a disgusting (and stupid) smear?
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,646 posts, read 13,893,120 times
Reputation: 1679
"And are you naive enough to believe that in just 2-3 days the MSM assembled all of this crap by themselves,"

Don't put it past them...Scott McKellen asserts we were misled through the media about the War! Look how big that charge is and what it encompassed.
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:20 PM
 
Location: on the edge of Sanity
14,269 posts, read 15,850,755 times
Reputation: 7898
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmac View Post
Well, I have a simple question to ask...are you saying that the Democratics are the 'people who are qualified to lead us'? And since 'getting them into power is more important than being truthful'...I take it that this must explain all the lies you've all put out there about Sarah Palin?
I am far from "Liberal" and I'm a Democrat. When Republicans can't discuss the issues they use words like "Pinko" or "Commie" to put labels on anyone who disagrees with them. I had to tell a couple of email buddies enough and finally blocked one person because of the amount of hateful emails about Obama. None of them had any substance or fact. One reason I'm voting for Obama is that I am very disappointed in the way John McCain and the GOP has run this campaign. I was one of the undecided Clinton supporters, but McCain made up my mind for me when he picked Palin as his running mate.

Lies? I agree that not everything about Sarah Palin has been 100% accurate, but I am one of those people who watch CNN, Fox, C-SPAN, local channels, and read newspapers to get a balanced perspective. My observations of Governor Palin clearly shows she is definitely not qualified to be Vice President and clueless about the national economy and foreign relations. In no way is that saying she is stupid, but just 2 years ago she was mayor of a tiny town that had about 5,000 people when she was elected (now about 8,500) She got 619 votes! Being "close to Russia" and being able to see Russia from parts of Alaska is the most ludricrous thing I've ever heard in any election. You can see Canada from Detroit if I'm not mistaken. So what? Many people in CA go to Mexico for the weekend. Who cares? Palin's gaffe about Fannie Mae floored me. She is the only candidate I can recall who has avoided talking to the press without a pre-planned, pre-written speech/interview and has been coached, prepped and scripted. I am baffled that anyone would want her to be a heartbeat away from the most powerful office in the world.
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:47 PM
 
Location: DC area
1,691 posts, read 2,195,683 times
Reputation: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
SGrey is right, the Republicans have cornered the market on name calling, and branding in general, I happen to disagree however on facts. Facts when hammered effectively with a pointed return to "you still didn't answer the question" produces the desired result in most cases, as evidenced recently in a few notable media venues. Typically the desired result is produced - sputtering, loss of control, anger, spin and/or downright foolishness as the questioned is exposed by just plain old make something up - Talented questioners just repeat said formula and wait. The problem with the media is they don't allot the time required to actually discern the truth, so we're left with the last quip of the liar, spinmaster, garbage spewer.
Ah but in the internet age against Rove tactics facts have become subjective. I still don't know Wasilla's actual population for instance (5k when she was mayor, I think). I've read 5k, 7k and 9k. Not a huge difference of course but I'm sure you get where I'm going. I've provided the break down on taxes more times than I can count but because some other site lists information that paints x candidate in a more favorable light that then means the factual truth can be dismissed in favor of the facts that are more supportive of the person's argument. The rest of what you said I agree with 100%.
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:09 AM
 
Location: In Transition
1,632 posts, read 1,605,204 times
Reputation: 911
Quote:
Originally Posted by idahogie View Post
If you think the Dems are just as bad, please provide counterexamples - with unbiased evidence (i.e., not articles from the Heritage Foundation, or NRO's Corner, or Fox News).
Example: Domestic Spying

* All we heard from Democrats were "Impeach Bush, domestic spying is bad blah blah blah Republicans bad blah blah blah"

* From "The Hill" (if you want to trust this source): TheHill.com - Scare tactics

Obama Quote: Asked for comment, the campaign of Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) provided a statement from the senator: “I strongly oppose retroactive immunity in the FISA bill. No one should get a free pass to violate the basic civil liberties of the American people — not the president of the United States, and not the telecommunications companies that fell in line with his warrantless surveillance program [… T]hat is why I am proud to stand with Sen. Dodd and a grassroots movement of Americans who are standing up for our civil liberties and the rule of law.”

I assume you'll believe this: U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

* Obama (and many other Dems) vote for FISA bill.

AT&T [one of the corps who made out from the Dem's FISA vote] throws lavish parties DURING the Democratic convention.

Democratic Party Convention 2008 - AT&T's lavish spending at convention stirs ire of watchdogs and competitors
Democracy Now! | AT&T Throws Party to Support Dems Who Voted to Grant Telecoms Immunity for Illegal Domestic Wiretapping
AT&T thanks the Blue Dog Democrats with a lavish party - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com

Owned... Still want to stick with your "it's a Republican only" game? I can play too!

Last edited by jkbatca; 09-16-2008 at 12:17 AM..
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:11 AM
LML
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,109 posts, read 8,098,071 times
Reputation: 5160
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Leo Strauss was an admirer of Heidegger, and a Platonist, as if you read Plato's views on government you can see where much of his core beliefs were derived from.

This notion that an intellectual elite were the only ones fit to rule or govern, because the masses were just not intellectually qualified to manage affairs of state. To some degree, I agree with this sentiment. As Winston Churchill once said, "The best argument against Democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter".

I would go so far as to be inclined to agree with Paul Gottfried who suggest that Straussians are less conservative and less rightist then they attempt to portray themselves. However, Leo Strauss's students, like Paul Wolfowitz, William Kristol, among others took this even further and embraced a more Trotskyist and militant form of liberalism.

The neoconservatives as they are often called isn't even really that accurate anymore and I would prefer to call them either Jacobins or neoliberals. Reason being is that while many of these people have their early roots in liberalism, they do not embrace liberalism in its classical sense as indicated by their attachment to a preemptive foreign policy that is steeped in militarism.

The more and more closely I look at the current political landscape, I am growing more convinced that traditional conservatism and traditional liberalism are but forms without substance. Today we have something that is more like a single party with two distant wings named right and left. As I and others have pointed out in several previous conversations, there is little left of the core ideals of either of the two and to illustrate, I ask when is the last time we heard a Presidential candidate address or run on the platform (even in a primary) on the core beliefs of traditional conservatism or liberalism? Do you ever hear about the issues of poverty, smaller government, reduced spending, etc... as a core plank in a platform or as they are usually displayed as cursory mentions during a stump speech that are soon forgotten after election day.

Interesting topic at least.
I had to quote your post in total because I agree with it in total. I have been, vainly, trying to make the point for weeks that the neo cons have no more in common with traditional conservatism than current new dems have to do with traditional liberalism. During the primaries I spent considerable time ranting to family and friends that only one candidate even breathed the word "poverty" or the "working poor" and we know what happened to him. Whatever happened to the Tom Harkins, the Hubert Humphries, the Robert Kennedys? If you look at the donor lists for both parties you will see the same names on each list. However, since no one that completely shares my views is running, I am this time voting for the unknown...Obama...since the known...McCain is just too frightening.
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