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Old 09-16-2008, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,646 posts, read 13,903,336 times
Reputation: 1679

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkbatca View Post
Example: Domestic Spying


Owned... Still want to stick with your "it's a Republican only" game? I can play too!
How about you submit to us the Senator's statement regarding the compromise which will entail why he voted the way he did, what he held out for and what was put back into the Bill in order to get that vote. Watering down the issue with a "so now" doesn't do justice to the fact that he was willing to compromise to get something done, nor the protections he insisted be part of the legislation - and this is the KEY to a successful Presidency, Foreign policy and political strategy to accomplish goals promised to the American People.
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:36 AM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,135 posts, read 21,843,725 times
Reputation: 23216
Who is responsible for the information on snopes? How did they all of a sudden become an authority. There is no way I would ever go there to check on anything. The only thing I learned is that they have computer viruses. I will never click on that website again.

Sometimes you can use a little logic to realize there is no truth to what is being said. I listened to the Biden speech on TV when he came to Charlotte. When he was talking about the health plan and how the Obama plan would cost so much less to the middle class than the McCain plan, it just didn't sound right. So tonight CBS compared the two and the middle class would benefit much more and save more on taxes with the McCain plan than the Obama plan. I want to thank CBS for the unbiased reporting.

So I turned over to CNN and all they were talking about was that Obama was accusing McCain of lying. Not. It was the Obama people lying. I feel like CNN and MSNBC are campaigning for Obama 24/7. Fox is biased for Republicans. What we need is more coverage like CBS. The news people need to stop making up the news and start reporting it. I would love to go back to the day when the media news reported news instead of told you how you should think. My brain works just fine.

Last edited by NCN; 09-16-2008 at 12:48 AM..
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:42 AM
 
Location: In Transition
1,632 posts, read 1,607,126 times
Reputation: 911
Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
How about you submit to us the Senator's statement regarding the compromise which will entail why he voted the way he did, what he held out for and what was put back into the Bill in order to get that vote.
Why can't you post a quote? A quote on that would be pointless anyways, because actions speak way louder than words... We can hear the blah blah blah anytime, but we have to live with the actions for generations to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
Watering down the issue with a "so now" doesn't do justice to the fact that he was willing to compromise to get something done, nor the protections he insisted be part of the legislation - and this is the KEY to a successful Presidency, Foreign policy and political strategy to accomplish goals promised to the American People.
Question: are there any principals in which Democrats cannot sell to the highest bidder, oops I mean compromise? Mmmm that Cool-aid sure must taste good!

Last edited by jkbatca; 09-16-2008 at 12:51 AM..
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:47 AM
 
12,625 posts, read 18,141,707 times
Reputation: 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalmom101 View Post
Teatime, I happen to know him personally, and he is probably the most earnest person I know. It doesn't hurt to just follow along and let the discourse take shape, you know.
Earnest in your opinion or as the dictionary describes it?
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:51 AM
 
Location: DC area
1,691 posts, read 2,197,048 times
Reputation: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
Who is responsible for the information on snopes? How did they all of a sudden become an authority. There is no way I would ever go there to check on anything. The only thing I learned is that they have computer viruses. I will never click on that website again.
Barbara and David Mikkelson run snopes. Their rise is anything but sudden either. They've been around since 95. If I remember right snopes primarily focused on urban legends in the beginning then it began picking up email hoaxes and grew from there.

Are you sure you got the virus from snopes? I'm not saying you didn't, please don't think that, I'm just quite surprised. Snopes is a reputable site that's never popped my anti-virus or ad blocking programs. If a virus did come from there I'd be more inclined to think it was a fluke event caused by someone hacking their site than anything malicious on their part.
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:51 AM
 
12,625 posts, read 18,141,707 times
Reputation: 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by idahogie View Post
I haven't seen any smears. Please provide some objective proof, if you have any.
Do you have TV over there in Id Falls or just the internet?

Palin Rumors | Explorations
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:56 AM
 
12,625 posts, read 18,141,707 times
Reputation: 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post

I can't believe you're seriously even asking the question - just look at the first page of thread titles in this forum - you're NUTS if you think that liberals aren't doing it! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
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Old 09-16-2008, 01:21 AM
 
Location: DC area
1,691 posts, read 2,197,048 times
Reputation: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
Sometimes you can use a little logic to realize there is no truth to what is being said. I listened to the Biden speech on TV when he came to Charlotte. When he was talking about the health plan and how the Obama plan would cost so much less to the middle class than the McCain plan, it just didn't sound right. So tonight CBS compared the two and the middle class would benefit much more and save more on taxes with the McCain plan than the Obama plan. I want to thank CBS for the unbiased reporting.
I just caught this and would love to hear a break down of the numbers because this goes against every analyst report that's been given so far.

Scratch that. I've just spent an hour scouring the net, after starting this post and the figures stay the same from what I'd already heard. I also found the cbs vid. The only middle class family (out of three) that the McCain planned benefited, especially by a lot, was the family currently making 230+.

Obama, McCain Differ On Taxes Video - CBSNews.com

May I ask how you came up with middle class families benefiting so much more under McCain?
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Old 09-16-2008, 02:57 AM
 
13,180 posts, read 13,063,162 times
Reputation: 4532
It is a game to the GOP.

There have been recent books on the subject. This started under Nixon with the Southern stategy. Using cultural divides in America to win elections.


Most voters don't have a good take on who their representative is, what they do, how they vote, the details of the issues before us. What issues effect them directly?

So seeing that they don't have "knowledge". They go by more base instincts. Who is like me?? Who hates what I hate?? Who likes what I like?? Who looks like me? Who's in my group.

They ask cultural questions, not policy/issue questions. The GOP needs this ignorance in a voter to thrive.

Dems have a hard time admitting this to themselves. They know the vote should depend on the issues and records. They can't bring themselves to get down and dirty like the GOP

One example, all this talk about how many houses McCain owns. This was a reaction to the constant McCain campaign storyline that Obama was an "elitist". He went to an Ivy league school, Hollywood Stars love him.

I can't stress enough this series of easy to read articles by Glenn Greenwald. He is the best political writer out today IMHO. He perfectly describes what is going on today and the Dem's inability so far to do anything about.


http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa...gop/index.html

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa...lin/index.html

GG

"With last night's cheerfully vicious speeches from Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin, the Republicans did what they always do in order to win elections: they exploited raw cultural divides while mocking, belittling and demonizing Democratic leaders. Yet again, they delivered brutally effective and deeply personal blows to the Democratic presidential candidate grounded in the same manipulative and deceitful yet very potent themes they've been using for the last three decades.

Ever since Ronald Reagan's election, this is what the Republicans do every four years. They render issues irrelevant and convert campaigns into cultural wars and personality referenda. They converted our elections into tawdry reality shows long before networks realized their entertainment value. And every four years, Democrats seems shocked and paralyzed by all of this and desperately delude themselves into believing that mean-spirited "negativity" and nastiness will alienate voters, while the media swoons at the potency of these attacks. "

....GG

"But the idea that Americans instinctively recoil from negativity or that there will be some sort of backlash against Republicans generally and Palin specifically because of how "negative" their convention speeches were is pure fantasy. Cultural tribalism and personality attacks of those sort work, especially when they're not aggressively engaged.

Every four years, the GOP unleashes unrestrained personality attacks on Democrats and exploits cultural resentments. Every four years, Democrats tell themselves that such attacks don't work and are counter-productive. And every four years, that belief is disproven. These "character" issues end up mattering largely because Democrats, in election after election, allow wars over "character" to be waged in a largely one-sided fashion.

Last edited by padcrasher; 09-16-2008 at 03:12 AM..
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Old 09-16-2008, 03:56 AM
 
630 posts, read 1,031,283 times
Reputation: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by idahogie View Post
I had a colleague at work that I used to have conversations with on a regular basis. (He was fired for sending threatening emails, so I no longer see him.) But he was always looking for some way to bash Democrats and liberals. Anything would do - those stupid emails circulating all the time were as good as anything. He once sent along one that compared how citizens responded to Hurricane Katrina versus a snowstorm in ND. His point was to prove that the people of NOLA were dependent on help from the government, while the good people from small-town middle America were independent and strong.

I pointed him to the Snopes article that debunked the entire email, and his response was basically, "So? The email is still true in a fundamental way!" I often pointed that episode out to him. It seems that he thought of politics as a game, and that the goal was to win. Any tactic was OK, if it brought you closer to that goal.

In fact, if you research Leo Strauss, one of the fathers of modern conservatism, and his concept of the "noble lie," you'll see the underpinnings of this philosophy: that there is a set of people who are qualified to lead us, and that getting them into power is more important than being truthful.

I see a lot of that attitude here. People seeking justification for their own cherished beliefs. Throwing things against the wall to see if they will stick. Ignoring contradictory information and even common sense.

In fact, McCain's entire campaign is based on that approach. He's desperately avoiding the discussion of real issues, preferring instead to run a disgusting smear campaign. The Swiftboat effort in 2004 was the same. (OT: I wonder if many of the Swiftboaters hate the GOP for ruining the value of that name?)

Is there a fundamental difference here? Why is the conservative mentality seemingly drawn to this form of argument? Does anybody see liberals doing it? I'll grant that the recent list of library books that Palin sought to ban falls in this category - but I don't see too many others.

If you think the Dems are just as bad, please provide counterexamples - with unbiased evidence (i.e., not articles from the Heritage Foundation, or NRO's Corner, or Fox News).
it sounds like you have too much freetime at work
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