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I had a colleague at work that I used to have conversations with on a regular basis. (He was fired for sending threatening emails, so I no longer see him.) But he was always looking for some way to bash Democrats and liberals. Anything would do - those stupid emails circulating all the time were as good as anything. He once sent along one that compared how citizens responded to Hurricane Katrina versus a snowstorm in ND. His point was to prove that the people of NOLA were dependent on help from the government, while the good people from small-town middle America were independent and strong.
I pointed him to the Snopes article that debunked the entire email, and his response was basically, "So? The email is still true in a fundamental way!" I often pointed that episode out to him. It seems that he thought of politics as a game, and that the goal was to win. Any tactic was OK, if it brought you closer to that goal.
In fact, if you research Leo Strauss, one of the fathers of modern conservatism, and his concept of the "noble lie," you'll see the underpinnings of this philosophy: that there is a set of people who are qualified to lead us, and that getting them into power is more important than being truthful.
I see a lot of that attitude here. People seeking justification for their own cherished beliefs. Throwing things against the wall to see if they will stick. Ignoring contradictory information and even common sense.
In fact, McCain's entire campaign is based on that approach. He's desperately avoiding the discussion of real issues, preferring instead to run a disgusting smear campaign. The Swiftboat effort in 2004 was the same. (OT: I wonder if many of the Swiftboaters hate the GOP for ruining the value of that name?)
Is there a fundamental difference here? Why is the conservative mentality seemingly drawn to this form of argument? Does anybody see liberals doing it? I'll grant that the recent list of library books that Palin sought to ban falls in this category - but I don't see too many others.
If you think the Dems are just as bad, please provide counterexamples - with unbiased evidence (i.e., not articles from the Heritage Foundation, or NRO's Corner, or Fox News).
If you think the Dems are just as bad, please provide counterexamples - with unbiased evidence (i.e., not articles from the Heritage Foundation, or NRO's Corner, or Fox News).
Right. You Dems can smear all kinds of crap here from The National Enquirer, the Daily Kos and the Democratic Underground and you want to complain solely about us?
Right. You Dems can smear all kinds of crap here from The National Enquirer, the Daily Kos and the Democratic Underground and you want to complain solely about us?
You have an incredible amount of nerve.
I provided you with Snopes and Wikipedia. I have never cited the others. You can do the same. Otherwise I'd just as soon you stayed away from this post.
Right. You Dems can smear all kinds of crap here from The National Enquirer, the Daily Kos and the Democratic Underground and you want to complain solely about us?
You have an incredible amount of nerve.
No, teatime, you have an incredible amount of Nerve. Idahogie has made his case in a reasonable and logical manner, without profanity or insult. Why can't you respond in kind? No substance? Did you miss the title of the thread? He's serious, the issues are serious, I have to agree, address it seriously or just read along.
No, teatime, you have an incredible amount of Nerve. Idahogie has made his case in a reasonable and logical manner, without profanity or insult. Why can't you respond in kind? No substance? Did you miss the title of the thread? He's serious, the issues are serious, I have to agree, address it seriously or just read along.
....."that's to be expected, because if you don't have any fresh ideas, then you use stale tactics to scare voters." - Senator Obama
I've seen a fair amount from libs too but it occurs more often on other boards I frequent. Regardless, all too often people resort to saying but your candidate did x! instead of debating the issue whatsoever.
Quote:
Is there a fundamental difference here? Why is the conservative mentality seemingly drawn to this form of argument?
Honestly? Because it works. Bush taught everyone how well it does work. When all else fails turn the thing or person you are arguing against into the greatest evil on earth - swiftboat, activist judges, liberal (said with the same connotation as the N word), unpatriotic, traitor, and on ad infinitum. Truth need not apply.
I've seen a fair amount from libs too but it occurs more often on other boards I frequent. Regardless, all too often people resort to saying but your candidate did x! instead of debating the issue whatsoever.
Honestly? Because it works. Bush taught everyone how well it does work. When all else fails turn the thing or person you are arguing against into the greatest evil on earth - swiftboat, activist judges, liberal (said with the same connotation as the N word), unpatriotic, traitor, and on ad infinitum. Truth need not apply.
Thanks, SGrey.
Do I gather that you think it's a tactic deployed equally? If "because it works" is to make sense, I'd think that both sides would use it optimally.
I'd love to hear more examples of the tactic from the left. More crazy emails, more ludicrous blog posts, more vacuous comment threads, etc.
Originally Posted by idahogie;528478 In fact, if you research [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Strauss"
Leo Strauss[/url], one of the fathers of modern conservatism, and his concept of the "noble lie," you'll see the underpinnings of this philosophy: that there is a set of people who are qualified to lead us, and that getting them into power is more important than being truthful.
Well, I have a simple question to ask...are you saying that the Democratics are the 'people who are qualified to lead us'? And since 'getting them into power is more important than being truthful'...I take it that this must explain all the lies you've all put out there about Sarah Palin?
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Bush taught everyone how well it does work. When all else fails turn the thing or person you are arguing against into the greatest evil on earth - swiftboat, activist judges, liberal (said with the same connotation as the N word), unpatriotic, traitor, and on ad infinitum. Truth need not apply.