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Old 09-19-2008, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Idaho Falls
5,032 posts, read 3,558,621 times
Reputation: 1476
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanieuk View Post
What would it take for you to put it together?

the support of a Rev. for 20 years who is racist
letting that man baptise your children
He's not a racist. You don't even understand the concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanieuk View Post
a thesis that says blacks first and foremost
You took your one vote out of context. Which is what you McCain supporters have to do, as you're losing on all the issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanieuk View Post
a man running for for President that calls his grand. a typical white women
There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying what he said. Look at it in context. If I said "You're just like the typical conservative" I wouldn't be slamming conservatives. And if I said "I'm like the typical white man for this reason..." I wouldn't be insulting myself either.

You are just latching on to stupid right-wing talking points, just to cover up your real reason for voting against McCain. You can't hide it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanieuk View Post
I could go on, but if that doesn't allow you to see it for what it is...then there is no point. Does a meterologist need to tell you it's raining even if you look out your window only to see water??
I'd suggest that this paragraph should be directed at you - finding silly, unfounded reasons to believe that the Obamas "hate America". The tactics of the right are despicable.
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Old 09-19-2008, 08:05 PM
 
1,613 posts, read 1,598,210 times
Reputation: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanieuk View Post
What would it take for you to put it together?

the support of a Rev. for 20 years who is racist
letting that man baptise your children
a thesis that says blacks first and foremost
a man running for for President that calls his grand. a typical white women

I could go on, but if that doesn't allow you to see it for what it is...then there is no point. Does a meterologist need to tell you it's raining even if you look out your window only to see water??
#1 - I think we all know people who say crazy stuff, and it doesn't mean we believe or adhere to all of it. Some of the things Rev. Wright said were true, others outlandish. Does it mean that trinity UCC was overall a bad place? No, espically with their record of helping the community and the amount of non-minority members.

#2 - you've already seen my response on the thesis, if you choose to ignore that then I don't know what else to say to you. Read the continuation of that paragraph and then comment.

I wonder if you have ever heard someone in your family or some of your friends say something crazy about a minority? Does that automatically mean that you have the same views? If so, then I guess we have no arguement. If not, then apply the same thinking in this case.

You are very right, if all you think it's about are fist-pumps, and weirdo Reverends, then I guess we have no arguement. However, if you are going to paint one side of the canvas with that brush, then the other side should be painted with the same one. maybe you are unwilling to do that because the picture may not develop to your liking.
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Old 09-19-2008, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Holly Springs
3,478 posts, read 5,515,689 times
Reputation: 2258
Obama does not decide payroll taxes, Congress does. For someone that voted 97% of the time with his party would it not be rational to believe he will go along with what Congress, controlled by Democrats not calling for lowering anyones taxes, passes?
This is in conjunction with his plan to raise corporate and capital gains taxes.
End corporate subsidies (at local and state levels as well) lower the corporate tax rate to be competitive in the global market (see; Ireland) reduce the powers of unions and watch the jobs roll in. Look at Eastern Europes flat tax model and how well they are thriving because of it. Read up on Western Europe taking notice and starting to kick around adopting the same policy. The IRS is a monstrosity with what, 66,000 pages of tax code? We have over-complicated the system, and when you over-complicate about anything the end result is extraneous expense.
I personally do not believe either candidate can make any significant change, but McCain is the lesser of two evils in my case. A protectionist mindset, such as Obama's can compound our problems rather quickly.
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Old 09-19-2008, 08:11 PM
 
7,352 posts, read 6,010,695 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanieuk View Post
This is what I would call a typical answer of an under 30 voter for Obama. Thanks for proving my point.
It's called "the truth." Something that you do not appear to be interested in knowing.
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Old 09-19-2008, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Omaha
1,137 posts, read 1,389,959 times
Reputation: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanieuk View Post
I am 29 and I will be voting for McCain, but what I can't understand is why so many people are age want to vote for Obama? Most of the ones I meet really don't know much other than it's "the cool" thing to do, in which most of them won't admit.

What draws him to you? If you are getting ready to graduate then don't you want a job? If he raises taxes and he will...jobs will be cut. Don't you believe in the right to start a business and make it your own? make money off of it? Do you want social heathcare? Are you ready to wait in long lines to go see the doctor and when you get there see an "average" doctor? If you are white are you prepared to have african americans get jobs because of their color, even when you are more qualified?

Does it not bother you that Michelle Obama stated in her thesis that she will place African Americans first and foremost? Shouldn't everyone be treated equal?

It's not cool....so what is it that you like about him?

I'm 18, and at first yeah, I was drawn to his popularity, but mainly it was my parents one republican and one democrat who are both voting Obama. I looked up info on him, and kept an open mind to all the candidates. I found Obama fit me best, and he seemed to have real solutions. let me address each of your issues raised.

first and foremost, voting for Obama because he is cool is a similar mentality to voting for Palin because she's a woman or McCain because he's a POW. None of those things have much to do with their policies in office. McCain proved that when despite his former POW status, he voted against a GI bill that was more chomprehensive than the old one.

secondly, I have a job, but it won't pay the bills. I need help with college costs, and under Obama, if I serve my community he'll help me afford college on my own without having to run home to mommy and daddy for a loan.

thirdly, In my opinion, no company adds more jobs than they need, if you cut back on taxes to these corporations, then you aren't nessescarily opening up new jobs, but you aren't rewarding them for going overseas with it. I actually think that WOULD result in job growth. and that's Obama's plan.

fourthly, Obama isn't giving us Canada's healthcare nightmare. That was Hillary, and I was never a supporter of that plan. Obama makes it easier to afford, but not free. This way it makes it possible for people who are actually struggling, to get proper medical care, and makes joe sixpack who;s sleeping on the couch every day get a job if he want's coverage.

fifthly, I think as much as I don't like affirmitive action, there are definately still racists in this world, and under Obama I think we have the best chance to change that. I mean, seriously, what is more empowering for a populous than to see a person they feel they can relate to sitting in our highest office? I think it will really help us heal as a nation.

sixthly, Yes, that phrasing is not preferable, but neither is a whole heck of a lot of things that McCain has said. ask me for examples and I'll fill quite a bit of text.

So in conclusion. I'm not the brainless teenager. I know what I'm talking about and know that, in my opinion, our country will be better off with Obama at the helm.
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Old 09-19-2008, 08:41 PM
 
714 posts, read 961,698 times
Reputation: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhct View Post
#1 - I think we all know people who say crazy stuff, and it doesn't mean we believe or adhere to all of it. Some of the things Rev. Wright said were true, others outlandish. Does it mean that trinity UCC was overall a bad place? No, espically with their record of helping the community and the amount of non-minority members.

#2 - you've already seen my response on the thesis, if you choose to ignore that then I don't know what else to say to you. Read the continuation of that paragraph and then comment.

I wonder if you have ever heard someone in your family or some of your friends say something crazy about a minority? Does that automatically mean that you have the same views? If so, then I guess we have no arguement. If not, then apply the same thinking in this case.

You are very right, if all you think it's about are fist-pumps, and weirdo Reverends, then I guess we have no arguement. However, if you are going to paint one side of the canvas with that brush, then the other side should be painted with the same one. maybe you are unwilling to do that because the picture may not develop to your liking.
#1 True- but we don't choose to support it for 20 years

#2 The paragraph is irrelevant...the sentence alone explains it
“There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the black community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost. “


Michelle Obama


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prhnc...eature=related
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Old 09-19-2008, 09:08 PM
 
1,613 posts, read 1,598,210 times
Reputation: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanieuk View Post
#1 True- but we don't choose to support it for 20 years

#2 The paragraph is irrelevant...the sentence alone explains it
“There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the black community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost.



Michelle Obama


YouTube - The shocking video Barack Obama does not want you to see!!
Hey, that is fine..I guess you don't want to admit that she was talking about how her life transioned from one point (when she entered college) until she left college then oh well

The bottom line is if the whole paragraph was read, it paints a different picture than what you just want to point out. Taking one line out of the context of a paragraph for examination only proves the point you are trying to prove, not the whole picture and certainly not the truth.
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Old 09-19-2008, 09:13 PM
 
7,352 posts, read 6,010,695 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Adam29 View Post
I'm 18, and at first yeah, I was drawn to his popularity, but mainly it was my parents one republican and one democrat who are both voting Obama. I looked up info on him, and kept an open mind to all the candidates. I found Obama fit me best, and he seemed to have real solutions. let me address each of your issues raised.

first and foremost, voting for Obama because he is cool is a similar mentality to voting for Palin because she's a woman or McCain because he's a POW. None of those things have much to do with their policies in office. McCain proved that when despite his former POW status, he voted against a GI bill that was more chomprehensive than the old one.

secondly, I have a job, but it won't pay the bills. I need help with college costs, and under Obama, if I serve my community he'll help me afford college on my own without having to run home to mommy and daddy for a loan.

thirdly, In my opinion, no company adds more jobs than they need, if you cut back on taxes to these corporations, then you aren't nessescarily opening up new jobs, but you aren't rewarding them for going overseas with it. I actually think that WOULD result in job growth. and that's Obama's plan.

fourthly, Obama isn't giving us Canada's healthcare nightmare. That was Hillary, and I was never a supporter of that plan. Obama makes it easier to afford, but not free. This way it makes it possible for people who are actually struggling, to get proper medical care, and makes joe sixpack who;s sleeping on the couch every day get a job if he want's coverage.

fifthly, I think as much as I don't like affirmitive action, there are definately still racists in this world, and under Obama I think we have the best chance to change that. I mean, seriously, what is more empowering for a populous than to see a person they feel they can relate to sitting in our highest office? I think it will really help us heal as a nation.

sixthly, Yes, that phrasing is not preferable, but neither is a whole heck of a lot of things that McCain has said. ask me for examples and I'll fill quite a bit of text.

So in conclusion. I'm not the brainless teenager. I know what I'm talking about and know that, in my opinion, our country will be better off with Obama at the helm.

May I just say that you are, indeed, no "brainless teenager." In fact, you are one of few people on this forum who has actually bothered to educate yourself regarding the position of the candidates on the issues. And you have done so, apparently, by adhering to reliable sources rather than insane and inflammatory rhetoric from outer space. I am heartened by your post--especially by its considered thoughtfulness and rationality--and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.
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Old 09-19-2008, 09:16 PM
 
1,613 posts, read 1,598,210 times
Reputation: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by movingforward View Post
may i just say that you are, indeed, no "brainless teenager." in fact, you are one of few people on this forum who has actually bothered to educate yourself regarding the position of the candidates on the issues. And you have done so, apparently, by adhering to reliable sources rather than insane and inflammatory rhetoric from outer space. I am heartened by your post--especially by its considered thoughtfulness and rationality--and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.
+1!
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Old 09-19-2008, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Omaha
1,137 posts, read 1,389,959 times
Reputation: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
May I just say that you are, indeed, no "brainless teenager." In fact, you are one of few people on this forum who has actually bothered to educate yourself regarding the position of the candidates on the issues. And you have done so, apparently, by adhering to reliable sources rather than insane and inflammatory rhetoric from outer space. I am heartened by your post--especially by its considered thoughtfulness and rationality--and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.
thank you for your kind words! They are very much appreciated.
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