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View Poll Results: Who won the 1st Presidential Debate
McCain 124 32.04%
Obama 194 50.13%
It was a tie 69 17.83%
Voters: 387. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-27-2008, 10:58 AM
 
Location: East Tennessee and Atlanta
3,685 posts, read 8,778,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walksalone View Post
I will take substance, knowledge and experience over "eloquence" any day of the week. Obama "sounded" good but said nothing .... nothing original and nothing new. .
Well, McCain was saying the same stuff he's been a proponent of for 20+ years in the Senate. He may have some knowledge, experience, and substance moreso than Obama, but McCain will just be more of Bush. This country doesn't need another 4 years of Bush.
Plus, McCain's choice of Vice President is a real disappointment. A right-wing Pentecostal governor who just got a passport a few months ago. The fact that McCain is 72 and she is a heartbeat away from being President is downright SCARY.
Bottom line is McCain won't win because his economic policies mirror Bush's, in this terrible economic time in America.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Texas
835 posts, read 1,196,401 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by S6Sputnik View Post
John Maynard Keynes might have mis-spelled it
Nope you got it right! When Keynes met with Roosevelt he was told to "screw off" by FDR.....the debate which has gone on for decades is keynesian vs. conservatism(supply side).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erma View Post
It's being televised again and I didn't see where Obama did better on the economy issue. I think this issue should have been given more time for each of them to go into a little more detail because many low income families and older folks, are not well versed in what is going on with the bail out. The media will only tell you what you want to hear, there are many that aren't capable of affording cable networks or dishes, they're just trying to survive and their local news really doesn't say much. Heck, our local news doesn't say much!
After the first couple of question I really thought Obama was doing better...once he started talking about loopholes and business not paying 35-38% he started looking a fool and McCain took over for the rest of the debate. McCain needs to look into the camera next time. IMHO. I'm glad if others think McCain was doing better early on Maybe I'll go play it once more....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc View Post
yeah, I agree. I didn't like him either. He was annoying. He seemed to want to get them to fight....not a good moderator.
yes....what was that "Talk to each other" "Respond to each other"
I miss Tim Russert he asked great question and didn't get bullied.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:18 AM
 
527 posts, read 1,686,076 times
Reputation: 280
McCain won no doubt...but I think it is funny how the media keeps telling me that Obama won

I wonder if this tactic will help Obama or not...I am really curious to know if people really listen to what the analysts and media conclude. Do they believe it or decide for themselves.

I know what I saw and it is really bizarre then to hear people tell me I am wrong..I really did not hear and see what I saw

Ok, I am confusing myself.

If Obama wins then we will get what we deserve....
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:20 AM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,922 posts, read 7,840,706 times
Reputation: 2035
If McCain wins you'll get what you already have..only worse.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:27 AM
 
125 posts, read 166,494 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc View Post
Well, McCain was saying the same stuff he's been a proponent of for 20+ years in the Senate. He may have some knowledge, experience, and substance moreso than Obama, but McCain will just be more of Bush. This country doesn't need another 4 years of Bush.
Plus, McCain's choice of Vice President is a real disappointment. A right-wing Pentecostal governor who just got a passport a few months ago. The fact that McCain is 72 and she is a heartbeat away from being President is downright SCARY.
Bottom line is McCain won't win because his economic policies mirror Bush's, in this terrible economic time in America.
Those that keep saying that McCain will just be four more years of Bush don't know what they are talking about. There are stark differences between the two and there always has been. Again... a little research and education would certainly confirm this. One of the only things they have in common is the fact they are both Republicans. McCain has worked hard for years to reform the Republican Party. I agree that we don't need another 4 years of Bush and with McCain we won't get that. And what mirror are you looking at to make a statement that McCain's economic policies mirror Bush's ..... again... there are stark differences.

And as far as "this terrible economic time in America" ....

It's time to quit pointing the finger as far as who is to blame and our current economic situation did not happen over night ... it just didn't happen over the last 8 years. I personally don't believe there should be ANY BAILOUTS and I mean financial institutions, companies, corporations, or .... PEOPLE. Mainstreet is as much at fault as Wallstreet. Overspending - Buying houses they knew they couldn't afford - Abusing credit ... and the list goes on and on. I could see this coming down the pike for years and I have prepared for it. The bailout will do nothing but stall the inevitable... the economic downturn, which will only be worsened. Sure ... go ahead and print up more money ... before long it will be worthless. That's been the problem for over 20 years ..... which only gives the illusion that the economy is stable.

Our country is in financial turmoil and on the verge of another major depression. "We The People" need to wake up and demand that the government of the people, for the people, by the people be truly put into the hands of the people and not political self-made imaginary deities!
Our government could use one heck of an enema and we could start by placing the tip of the hose in congress. If "We the People" choose to do nothing - then we have no one to blame for anything - but - "We the People".


I think it is way too soon to comment on his choice for VP, however, I do know that she has more "EXECUTIVE" experience than Obama and Binden Combined. Ok ... Senator McCain is 72 years old .... so what. I haven't seen any signs of him crawling to his death bed. There are 50 year olds that aren't in as good a shape as he is. I am far more concerned if something should happen to Obama and Binden.......... and Pelosi takes office. This country will go to hell in a handbasket for sure.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Texas
835 posts, read 1,196,401 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
If McCain wins you'll get what you already have..only worse.
I'll take this economic crisis over Obama anyday anytime anywhere....I earn my money and it is therefore my money to spend and Obama needs to keep his thieving hand out of my pocket trying to steal 58%....
Small Business Owner support McCain and if you like jobs you would too...we have created over 75% of the jobs in this country for the last 10 years and our reward is to have Obama take 58%....I didn't move to cold war Russia for a reason ans I don't want Obama bringing it here! McCain is a fiscal conservative....Bush is conservative.

The worst words any American can ever hear "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" Ronald Reagan voted best president of the 20th century.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:43 AM
 
125 posts, read 166,494 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by artifice View Post
I'll take this economic crisis over Obama anyday anytime anywhere....I earn my money and it is therefore my money to spend and Obama needs to keep his thieving hand out of my pocket trying to steal 58%....
Small Business Owner support McCain and if you like jobs you would too...we have created over 75% of the jobs in this country for the last 10 years and our reward is to have Obama take 58%....I didn't move to cold war Russia for a reason ans I don't want Obama bringing it here! McCain is a fiscal conservative....Bush is conservative.

The worst words any American can ever hear "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" Ronald Reagan voted best president of the 20th century.

You might want to explain the difference between a fiscal conservative and a conservative because I am confident MANY have no clue. Heck, many can't tell the difference between sounding presidential and actually being presidential.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:57 AM
Status: "13 years on C-D" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Shallow alcove hidden from the telescreen
2,864 posts, read 9,936,235 times
Reputation: 1549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreverking View Post
well theres 1 more vote for McCain. Nader had 4 years to prove he was the man. He only comes around every 4 years to try and sensationalise himself. ...
I see, the old "spoiler" argument. Not buying it. Neither McCain nor Obama represent me here on "Main Street" so a vote for either of them is wasted. What's a citizen to do? I'm voting Nader because my vote will then at least be counted as one who is FED UP with the "one-party" system. And as a matter of fact, Nader stays pretty active even in off-election years, but the corporate media won't cover him! So if there's a perception that he only comes around every four years, that's why! "Mating Pandas at the zoo get more coverage," as votenader.org points out.

And by the way, the Democrats have now had two years now to show us that they are different from the Republicans. What have the done? Ow, spent a lot of time making sure Dems stay in office (same as Reps), increased war spending (even thought they said they would curb it), and basically perpetuated business as usual. What's the diff?
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Old 09-27-2008, 12:05 PM
 
4,270 posts, read 13,974,179 times
Reputation: 3352
You make good points and I agree with your train of thought but there's a few things I would like to comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjma79 View Post
What about Capital gain taxes, that Obama want also to raise?
What 95% of the people dont have capital gain?
Right now is 15% under Obama is 28%, that means, if you sell a house, stocks, anything, you have to pay tax.
I guess 95% of the people dont have houses.
Income is classified as either ordinary income (wages) or capital gains (investments). Currently, capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than ordinary income. If Obama wins, I guarantee you people with capital gains are going to sell in a frenzy to try and avoid paying the higher tax rate under his watch. Good or bad, honestly, I can't speculate, especially with the current unstable market.

I do have a question about selling a home. I don't own one so I am not familiar with the process but I thought gains (profit) from a home sale is nontaxable if you owned it for a certain number of years and it was your main residence.



Quote:
Lets say I have a Pizza rest. and my profit is 250k, meaning Obama is going to increase my tax. So what do you think I am going to do? I have only 3 option
1. Increase the price of my pizza
2. Let go one of my workers
3. Both

This is only a simple way to put it, but at the end all tax is pass down. Same thing for big company, if a company made 100m last year and now made 95m because of tax increase, do you think they are not going to do anything? Again only 3 options.
I would like to add to this.

Example 1. Increase the price of my pizza.

You bring in $250,000 and increase the pizza price by $10%. That will increase revenue to $275,000. I'm doing hypothetical numbers just to simplify the problem. At the current tax rate of, say, 30%, the gov't will generate a tax revenue of $75,000. If Obama increased taxes to 40%, the gov't will generate a tax revenue of 110,000. Not bad. Obama just got an increase in tax revenue for the government of $35,000.

Now, my question is, what if business suffers beause of the price increase? We are all consumers so we can all agree if the price at a restuarant goes up, we're probably going to eat there less so let's say business drops from $250,000 to 225,000. The government doesn't get $110,00 revenue anymore. Instead, the government generates, again a rate increase of 40%, $90,000. This is still a revenue increase of $15,000, but not the $35,000 the government thought they were going to get.

Or, if you want to get really technical, because the revenue generated is now only $225,000, the government will get less tax revenue. Why? Because the revenue is under Obama's plan of "I'm going to raise taxes on people who's income is over $250,000." Obviously, the business is making less than $250,000 now. That actually means a tax revenue loss of $7,500 ($75,000 - $67,500).

That brings me to proposed #4 solution. People who are in the range of $250,000 are just going to make less so they deliberately won't have to pay more taxes. This idea is based on the substitution effect of behavioural responses to rate changes. In a nutshell, it basically means that it makes very little difference to someone in the $250,000 income range if he made $250,000 or, say, $225,000. Again, Obama's idea that inceasing taxes only on those who make more than $250,000 will generate much less revenue than he thinks it will. Ultimately, that means he's going to have to raise taxes on more than just people making more than $250,000. Or, he's going to have to cut a sh*tload of programs.

Obama's tax increase plan won't work to the extent that he thinks it will. He will ultimately have to increase taxes on more people. I'm not saying his plan is wrong, but I am saying that it is flawed.
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Old 09-27-2008, 12:14 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,922 posts, read 7,840,706 times
Reputation: 2035
Quote:
Originally Posted by artifice View Post
I'll take this economic crisis over Obama anyday anytime anywhere....I earn my money and it is therefore my money to spend and Obama needs to keep his thieving hand out of my pocket trying to steal 58%....
Small Business Owner support McCain and if you like jobs you would too...we have created over 75% of the jobs in this country for the last 10 years and our reward is to have Obama take 58%....I didn't move to cold war Russia for a reason ans I don't want Obama bringing it here! McCain is a fiscal conservative....Bush is conservative.

The worst words any American can ever hear "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" Ronald Reagan voted best president of the 20th century.
Where do you get the impression that McCain will be good for Jobs? He is Part of the reason why your hard eraned money is now being given to Bail out Wall Street. He wants to give across the board tax cuts, which again will benefit the rich. He wants to find money by freezing payments that will only hurt middle America. He is going to carry on with a hugely expensive war that cannot be won because as soon as troop levels go down, the terrorists will return, then McCain will use a surge again. Remember he said we will be in Iraq for 100 years. So tell me how McCain is going to help America? He will HAVE TO increase taxes to pay for his schemes.
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