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The idea of public land is socialism, but I think Palin didnt make that land public. Since it was established in 1960 how old was Palin.
I think is a little stupid to say she is socialist because Alaska has public land that has nothing to do with her.
If you have private land and you find a gold mine, that gold mine is your, why should be public? I dont get your question.
Of course she didn't. That's not the point. It's the ridiculously simple-minded critique of categorizing anything Obama's proposing as "socialism" when so many of the things that Palin and McCain have supported in the past and continue to support could easily be described as socialist themselves.
The use of this term in the campaign is meant to scare voters away from this or that policy, without examining what it really means, whether its being applied correctly, and whether its outside the political tradition of the history of US politics to do so in the first place.
Of course she didn't. That's not the point. It's the ridiculously simple-minded critique of categorizing anything Obama's proposing as "socialism" when so many of the things that Palin and McCain have and continue to support could easily be described as socialist themselves.
Can you please tell me the very very long list of McCain socialist ideas??
Let me go first. An before you start attacking my ideas, I want to see your list.
1. his tax plan is socialist
2. His Fair tax program have Labor and Enviromental standards, this is socialist
3. He wants to raise social security on the rich only socialist
4. Increase FMLA, socialist
5. More union power giving them Card-check, socialist
6. Paid sick leave mandatory, socialist
7. Play or pay:New business mandate requireng to buy coverage or pay fee. socialist
8. Universal coverage by 2012, mandate for parents to buy caverage for childrens, socialist
Can you please tell me the very very long list of McCain socialist ideas??
Let me go first. An before you start attacking my ideas, I want to see your list.
1. his tax plan is socialist
2. His Fair tax program have Labor and Enviromental standards, this is socialist
3. He wants to raise social security on the rich only socialist
4. Increase FMLA, socialist
5. More union power giving them Card-check, socialist
6. Paid sick leave mandatory, socialist
7. Play or pay:New business mandate requireng to buy coverage or pay fee. socialist
8. Universal coverage by 2012, mandate for parents to buy caverage for childrens, socialist
I don't quite understand what that list you posted was about.
But here's John McCain in 2000 explaining why he was against the Bush tax cuts.
Despite the fact that he's since flip-flopped on that idea, he still proposes a progressive tax system, where the wealthy pay more percentage wise than the rest of the country. However, the two candidates disagree on a few percentage points.
If you believe the top tax bracket should be 39% you are now a socialist. If you believe it should be at 36%, you're a Pro-American American.
Considering what the highest tax rate was for most of the 20th century, one can only conclude that we've been a deeply socialist nation for some time now.
Mineral rights were defined by a claim on a piece of unowned land. Today when you purchase a plot of land, many times you will find that someone has paid an option to own or to exploit the mineral rights for a period of time, up to 99 years. After that period of time has lapsed, the option once again rests in the hands of the property owner. Previous owners may have sold this option to any given mining or oil company.
The clause is in most land deeds and states whether or not the mineral rights rest in the hands of the deed holder.
The '49ers staked claims first by placing stakes or a pile of rocks at the corners of the area they were claiming. Mining law at that time stated that the claim had to be "worked" or the claim would lapse after a certain period of time. Now mining and oil companies can actually purchase the options, and NOT work the claim, as long as the option is current.
On the North Slope, Alaska is having problems with the oil companies NOT utilizing the natural gas on the oilfields, as they have the option, and are not exercising said option by sending it out of the oilfields.
Look brainchild,I never said I was an "expert" on Alaska.Here's my "expertise" on the subject of Alaska since you brought it in to play with your post.I found the country up there to be awesome, but the "local" people I met from there looked like a pack of winos who had slept in there trucks overnight and had holier than thou attitudes towards those of us who were actually getting the work done because we were "in their area" working.They wanted a handout of the premium jobs (and got them too) but were unqualified(although they thought they knew everything.) and had a crappy outlook on even working for their check(the turn over rate of locals was ridiculous as I remember).The business owners practiced legal theft with their prices and to call them gougers wouldn't even begin to get it started.Everyone had their hand out and tried to get in your pocket.
That's about all I can remember so I can't really call myself an expert on Alaska.I went up there with the idea of staying and building a life there,but within the first couple of days I knew that I was heading back to WY as soon as we finished up and although I was making GOOD money for the times ,it wasn't enough to survive with anywhere near the lifestyle I was accustomed to living(you know...shelter,food,utilities,fuel for my truck.The good life).So I left my part of it to YOU.And you don't seem very grateful to me.
If it wasn't for the tradesmen from the lower 48(and the rest of the world for that matter) you guys wouldn't be getting your welfare check,you would be in the dark for lack of electricity(can't build a power plant with junk snowmobile parts, used 55 gallon drums and no know how can you?) nor would YOU even be there as the men from the lower 48 built the way that allowed the area to be somewhat settled.Is everything in your home made in Alaska?Are your vehicles?ALL of the food you eat?The clothes you wear?Get over yourself,no one is gonna pat you on the back because you are self suffering or self important.You guys are legends in your own mind.
If it were not for the energy/mineral reserves there,Seward's Folly would be just as true today as it was the first time it was uttered and the lower 48 would care less if Alaska fell into the sea.
I wish you had been smart enough to recognise the sarcasm in my first post in this thread and I wouldn't think of you as a bigheaded jerk now.Oh well
I'm wondering what part of Alaska you were in, and what you were doing. I seem to remember the 80's a bit differently. In my area, the road from the ferry was literally lined with trailers that people dragged up from the lower 48 hoping to get rich off the Tongass. This is what they left behind, by the way:
It sounds like you made the right decision moving back to WY. You sound awfully bitter about Alaska.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 10-23-2008 at 03:30 PM..
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,078 posts, read 15,078,355 times
Reputation: 3937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla
I'm wondering what part of Alaska you were in, and what you were doing. I seem to remember the 80's a bit differently. In my area, the road from the ferry was literally lined with trailers that people dragged up from the lower 48 hoping to get rich off the Tongass. This is what they left behind, by the way:
It sounds like you made the right decision moving back to WY. You sound awfully bitter about Alaska.
I was when I left.I felt ripped off and tired of the BS (layers of politicians and their hacks we had to go through for permits,the cops harassing members of the crew with out of state license plates,prices etc etc) It doesn't seem as bad with the years that have gone by though,but like you I feel as if I made the right decision.I missed the smell of the air and the feeling of being at the end of the earth for many years though.
As for this thread, I think the Obama socialism thing is blown WAY out of proportion just like everything else in this campaign has been by both sides.I also think in a way that the checks are a FORM of socialism,but I'd rather see YOU get the money than some ahole oil company dirtbag.Does that make me for socialism,who cares,just spend the money and stay warm.
Look brainchild,I never said I was an "expert" on Alaska.Here's my "expertise" on the subject of Alaska since you brought it in to play with your post.I found the country up there to be awesome, but the "local" people I met from there looked like a pack of winos who had slept in there trucks overnight and had holier than thou attitudes towards those of us who were actually getting the work done because we were "in their area" working.They wanted a handout of the premium jobs (and got them too) but were unqualified(although they thought they knew everything.) and had a crappy outlook on even working for their check(the turn over rate of locals was ridiculous as I remember).The business owners practiced legal theft with their prices and to call them gougers wouldn't even begin to get it started.Everyone had their hand out and tried to get in your pocket.
That's about all I can remember so I can't really call myself an expert on Alaska.I went up there with the idea of staying and building a life there,but within the first couple of days I knew that I was heading back to WY as soon as we finished up and although I was making GOOD money for the times ,it wasn't enough to survive with anywhere near the lifestyle I was accustomed to living(you know...shelter,food,utilities,fuel for my truck.The good life).So I left my part of it to YOU.And you don't seem very grateful to me.
If it wasn't for the tradesmen from the lower 48(and the rest of the world for that matter) you guys wouldn't be getting your welfare check,you would be in the dark for lack of electricity(can't build a power plant with junk snowmobile parts, used 55 gallon drums and no know how can you?) nor would YOU even be there as the men from the lower 48 built the way that allowed the area to be somewhat settled.Is everything in your home made in Alaska?Are your vehicles?ALL of the food you eat?The clothes you wear?Get over yourself,no one is gonna pat you on the back because you are self suffering or self important.You guys are legends in your own mind.
If it were not for the energy/mineral reserves there,Seward's Folly would be just as true today as it was the first time it was uttered and the lower 48 would care less if Alaska fell into the sea.
I wish you had been smart enough to recognise the sarcasm in my first post in this thread and I wouldn't think of you as a bigheaded jerk now.Oh well
I am not sure where you were in AK, but as far as bumper stickers - not sure what you are getting at??? I lived in WY for about 4 years in early 2000s, and owned land there for about 5 years before then. In that time, I know WY if not for the tourism going through the state, coal mines and the oil and gas boom there, would have probably been pretty much nonexistent. I do remember prices there being ridiculous compared to wages, was that gouging? You have to have what you have to have, but there was not the trucking in expense in WY that there is here, so in my mind real gouging...
I doubt everything you consume or use was made in WY....if it is, I would sure like to see
As far as junk snowmobiles and 55 gal drums, WY is pretty much an anything goes state also. When I first drove down the Sterling Hwy to Homer, my first statement was "looks like WY" with the leave it where it sits thing...
I also remember a lot of people there complaining about work and wages, they weren't going to work unless making premium dollar....we know what happens then...if they couldn't get welfare they packed up and left for someplace else, saw a few leave their animals to starve, and left their mess behind...
It all depends on where you want to be, no place and no people are perfect...People move to Alaska for work, just as they are to WY right now, then they leave and who cleans up the mess
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,078 posts, read 15,078,355 times
Reputation: 3937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grannysroost
I am not sure where you were in AK, but as far as bumper stickers - not sure what you are getting at??? I lived in WY for about 4 years in early 2000s, and owned land there for about 5 years before then. In that time, I know WY if not for the tourism going through the state, coal mines and the oil and gas boom there, would have probably been pretty much nonexistent. I do remember prices there being ridiculous compared to wages, was that gouging? You have to have what you have to have, but there was not the trucking in expense in WY that there is here, so in my mind real gouging...
I doubt everything you consume or use was made in WY....if it is, I would sure like to see
As far as junk snowmobiles and 55 gal drums, WY is pretty much an anything goes state also. When I first drove down the Sterling Hwy to Homer, my first statement was "looks like WY" with the leave it where it sits thing...
I also remember a lot of people there complaining about work and wages, they weren't going to work unless making premium dollar....we know what happens then...if they couldn't get welfare they packed up and left for someplace else, saw a few leave their animals to starve, and left their mess behind...
It all depends on where you want to be, no place and no people are perfect...People move to Alaska for work, just as they are to WY right now, then they leave and who cleans up the mess
You won't catch me sticking up for WY against price gouging.I was there in 1970 when the boom hit and out of state folks were living under bridges and everywhere else.We saw unreal gouging going on and although I didn't think it was fair then either,they didn't ask me.
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).So I left my part of it to YOU.And you don't seem very grateful to me.
I was there in 1970 when the boom hit and out of state folks were living under bridges and everywhere else.We saw unreal gouging going on and although I didn't think it was fair then either,they didn't ask me.
