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Old 10-30-2008, 09:02 AM
 
1,596 posts, read 1,669,055 times
Reputation: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
They will both drill, there's no way past that at this point if we want to slow down paying out to the middle east.
As for McCain or Obama neither one has put out real good plans as far as I'm concerned. I don't want people's money taken from them and handed totally to the upside or downside and am in favor of the fair tax plan.
That being said I have a question for you, if you were going to pass out money who would you think would be better to pass it out to? People who earned it and when they get it tend to spend it growing their business and employing people or to people who didn't earn it for various reasons and when they get it spend it on everything from big tv's to booze?
I believe both groups need to be addressed and neither canidate has done so. The way I see it McCain wants to keep up with close to the same old same old which while tiresome and not really very fair will most likely not send us into a depression.
Obama on the other hand seems to have a stated goal of playing Robin Hood shoveling money to people who haven't and never will earn it which isn't really fair either. The problem is in this economy if he does what he's planning it will most likely have bad results for all of us.
Are there people who need help? Certainly!
Is it everybody below the xxx dollar line? No it isn't. I know families who are making about $35k combined who are doing ok, are pretty much happy but if you handed them a chunk of $$ would buy another toy or blow it some other way. Do we have the right to tell them how to spend it once they get it? No we don't so how do we have the right to tell people who make over $150k they now have to give away a big chunk of theirs?
The problem is where do you draw the line? Rich is a relative term as y'all are finding out with the moving Obama/Biden numbers, to someone who makes $30k a year I'd bet it's someone making $80k and to that person it's someone making $150k and so on all the way up and down the line.
To be simplistic, yes, we are going to increase domestic drilling under either man. That's not great environmentally, but it needs to be done in moderation, I guess. However, it's like giving a shot of epinephrine to the market and saying our heart failure is now cured! That's how I view the drill,baby,drill mantra. It is short-sighted and frankly, insulting. I feel confident that Obama will concentrate more on alternative sources of fuel and research.

Today, Exxon Mobil announced it's biggest profit in U.S. history. $137.7 billion in the 3rd quarter. Holy sh*t batman!!! That just speaks volumes and deserves it's own thread. Yet, McCain wants to preserve Bush's tax cuts for monolithic corps. such as Exxon. Meanwhile, CNN reported today that 3rd quarter consumer spending fell 0.3%The largest decline in 7 years.

Does that sound like we are going in the right direction? If we are going to find energy alternatives, where is the money going to come from for research? I think Exxon can afford to be taxed a little more (basically, at the same rate as under the Clinton admin.) and the top 1% of earners while a tax break for 95% of general consumers may help to jump start spending that will prevent this country from going into an even deeper recession.

So I'll just say no to trickle down economics. It isn't working at all.

Last edited by songgirl; 10-30-2008 at 09:17 AM..
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:30 AM
 
18,820 posts, read 7,769,422 times
Reputation: 5920
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
This is just too funny, nice try at the spin machine. How 'bout some facts now.
1. Neither party has done anything about energy independence or reigning in big oil. Even when the dem darling Clinton was in office with the self proclaimed environmentalist Al Gore as VP what was done? NOTHING.
2. Neither party over the last 20 years (until very recently) has said much of anything about global warming and if it does exist (the jury's still out on that) the U.S. is not totally at fault if at all so it's a non point. Btw we're supposed to have to shovel global warming ooops I mean snow next week...
3.Both parties signed off on the bailout socializing the losses but it was Franks and Dodd that pushed Freddie and Fanny to do loser loans. The thing that concerns me is why the government warned the banks 2 days before lehman went under but didn't bother to tell the public.
4. I won't even bother with the supposed "illegal occupation" and lying, it's been done to death and is a non starter.
5.Both parties allowed companies to shift overseas, this didn't just pop up in the last 8 years, this has been going on for quite a while.

You see what you're missing is most of these problems started many years ago and have gone through several election cycles and we've allowed it to continue by re-electing the incumbents every time. It may make you feeeeel better to blame one party or the other but both have had a hand in this at different times.
Can you point out which party I blamed in this particular post?
Just a little fact: There were solar panels on the White House when Reagan got there, which he quickly ripped out.

A guilty party needs no accuser
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:41 AM
 
18,820 posts, read 7,769,422 times
Reputation: 5920
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
This is just too funny, nice try at the spin machine. How 'bout some facts now.
1. Neither party has done anything about energy independence or reigning in big oil. Even when the dem darling Clinton was in office with the self proclaimed environmentalist Al Gore as VP what was done? NOTHING.
2. Neither party over the last 20 years (until very recently) has said much of anything about global warming and if it does exist (the jury's still out on that) the U.S. is not totally at fault if at all so it's a non point. Btw we're supposed to have to shovel global warming ooops I mean snow next week...
3.Both parties signed off on the bailout socializing the losses but it was Franks and Dodd that pushed Freddie and Fanny to do loser loans. The thing that concerns me is why the government warned the banks 2 days before lehman went under but didn't bother to tell the public.
4. I won't even bother with the supposed "illegal occupation" and lying, it's been done to death and is a non starter.
5.Both parties allowed companies to shift overseas, this didn't just pop up in the last 8 years, this has been going on for quite a while.

You see what you're missing is most of these problems started many years ago and have gone through several election cycles and we've allowed it to continue by re-electing the incumbents every time. It may make you feeeeel better to blame one party or the other but both have had a hand in this at different times.
You ignorance of what global warming actually is and how it changes weather patterns is showing. You are one of the deniers that assumes if it is cold anywhere on the planet then we can assume that climate change is not occuring. Do a bit of real research before you make a nonsensical statement. At this point, even Bush the liar has admitted the truth. Just as he has admitted that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:08 AM
 
2,541 posts, read 1,311,860 times
Reputation: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
You ignorance of what global warming actually is and how it changes weather patterns is showing. You are one of the deniers that assumes if it is cold anywhere on the planet then we can assume that climate change is not occuring. Do a bit of real research before you make a nonsensical statement. At this point, even Bush the liar has admitted the truth. Just as he has admitted that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.
LOL, the freaking ice caps are all melted and these jagoffs dont admit there is global warming caused by man, its just like Gore said.
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
32,939 posts, read 26,482,487 times
Reputation: 14923
Income redistribution continuously happens. It is the direction we are arguing about.

I think we should encourage the corporations to make a lot of money, give it to their share holders, tax the wealthiest of the share holders, take the money and hire people to do the work that is needed but unprofitable, and have the employed spend the money to make the corporations rich. If any part of this system becomes too rich or too poor the cycle collapses. When it fails the rich stay rich and the poor starve. Let us keep it spinning.
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:30 AM
 
27,077 posts, read 19,134,572 times
Reputation: 3682
http://www.petitionproject.org/gwdatabase/Signers_By_Last_Name.php?run=all (broken link)
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:04 PM
 
1,545 posts, read 1,204,115 times
Reputation: 274
Obama's insistence of equating McCAIN to BUSH is immature. If OBAMA even knows history, no two presidents are alike. The only two presidents that may be alike are BUSH sr and BUSH jr because of the blood line. Obama does NOT even know that when one becomes a president, that person will have their OWN policies and their OWN legacy. McCAIN, a maverick will have his own policies and his own legacy as the president. Why the hell would he copy BUSH???? McCAIN is NOT ignorant like OBAMA. Obama's statements that "MCCAIN is BUSH" and "DO YOU WANT ANOTHER 8 YEARS OF BUSH with MCCAIN?" is a PSYCHOLOGICAL game that OBAMA plays with his supporters to SCARE them into thinking that they will get another 4 years of BUSH with MCCAIN. That's how shallow OBAMA
thinks of his supporters of fooling them that two presidents are alike when in FACT they are NOT. McCAIN has his own brains!!!! McCAIN has his own ideas!!!! He works with TOP strategists to form the policies that will make AMERICA prosper and NOT only one class of the population.

HERE IS PROOF THAT MCCAIN CARES ABOUT THE MIDDLE CLASS----
Search this in GOOGLE----
But in 2001, McCain said his chief reason for opposing Bush's cut was that it gave too many breaks to the wealthy and not enough to lower-wage earners. His amendment to skew the cuts to benefit more middle-class taxpayers
failed, and he was one of only two Republicans to vote against the Bush package.
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:19 PM
 
2,541 posts, read 1,311,860 times
Reputation: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoppingCartLaw View Post
Obama's insistence of equating McCAIN to BUSH is immature. If OBAMA even knows history, no two presidents are alike. The only two presidents that may be alike are BUSH sr and BUSH jr because of the blood line. Obama does NOT even know that when one becomes a president, that person will have their OWN policies and their OWN legacy. McCAIN, a maverick will have his own policies and his own legacy as the president. Why the hell would he copy BUSH???? McCAIN is NOT ignorant like OBAMA. Obama's statements that "MCCAIN is BUSH" and "DO YOU WANT ANOTHER 8 YEARS OF BUSH with MCCAIN?" is a PSYCHOLOGICAL game that OBAMA plays with his supporters to SCARE them into thinking that they will get another 4 years of BUSH with MCCAIN. That's how shallow OBAMA
thinks of his supporters of fooling them that two presidents are alike when in FACT they are NOT. McCAIN has his own brains!!!! McCAIN has his own ideas!!!! He works with TOP strategists to form the policies that will make AMERICA prosper and NOT only one class of the population.

HERE IS PROOF THAT MCCAIN CARES ABOUT THE MIDDLE CLASS----
Search this in GOOGLE----
But in 2001, McCain said his chief reason for opposing Bush's cut was that it gave too many breaks to the wealthy and not enough to lower-wage earners. His amendment to skew the cuts to benefit more middle-class taxpayers
failed, and he was one of only two Republicans to vote against the Bush package.
True, McCain and Bush are not identical, as Buchanan put it "McCain makes Cheney look like Ghandi".
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:33 PM
 
3,220 posts, read 3,811,710 times
Reputation: 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by njchick View Post
Don't you think we pay enough taxes in this country? I don't understand how taxing people less, taxing small businesses less so that we create jobs.. is supporting the greedy. Have you seen the effect on excessive taxation and social programs on other countries. If it hasn't worked there, why would it work here? Just look at my state, New Jersey, and the problems we are having to see a microcosm of what would happen to this country. Small businesses are leaving this state, residents are leaving because of escalating property tax...it's a mess.
As a fellow NJ resident - You can say that again (sister)!
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Romeoville, IL
1,239 posts, read 1,517,984 times
Reputation: 469
Quote:
Originally Posted by freefall View Post
McCainomics= Bushonomics= Reganomics= Feed the Rich and Starve the Poor,you really want more of that 'trickle' on you?
The United States has the largest, and richest middle class in the world.
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