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View Poll Results: Do you care if Obama is constitutionally eligible to be President?
Yes - And if he is not eligible he should remove himself 133 75.57%
Yes - I care but think he should still be able to be President 6 3.41%
No - I don't care, and would still vote for him if not eligible 33 18.75%
No - I don't care - and will not be voting for him 4 2.27%
Voters: 176. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-27-2008, 03:09 AM
 
Location: Everybody is going to hurt you, you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for-B Marley
9,516 posts, read 19,948,499 times
Reputation: 9417

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Not only no, he shouldn't be president if not born a citizen, but he!! no! As much as I like Gov Schwarzenegger, I have said the same about him. Too bad. If Obama really was born in Kenya, this entire election is the biggest farce this country has ever seen. It should never have come this far.
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Old 10-27-2008, 03:25 AM
 
2,195 posts, read 3,626,917 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooter View Post
Obama's birth certificate sealed by Hawaii governor
Says Democratic senator must make request to obtain original document


Posted: October 26, 2008
9:54 pm Eastern
By Jerome R. Corsi
Source: WorldNetDaily



HONOLULU, Hawaii – Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – WND has learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal, and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.
The governor's office officially declined a request made in writing by WND in Hawaii to obtain a copy of the hospital-generated original birth certificate of Barack Obama.[Mod edited for copyright]
Sorry, no.

a) This is Corsi writing. "WND" has learned nothing.
b) It is not that Governor Lingle has placed the certificate under seal, this is what the law says, already.

The Governor's office officially declined the request because it would be against the law for her to do so! This is not news.

Hawai‘i State Department of Health
Quote:
Who is Eligible to Apply for Certified Copies of Vital Records?
A certified copy of a vital record (birth, death, marriage, or divorce certificate) is issued only to an applicant who has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons are considered to have such an interest:
  • the registrant (the person whom the record is concerned with);
  • the registrant’s spouse;
  • the registrant’s parent(s);
  • a descendant of the registrant (e.g., a child or grandchild);
  • a person having a common ancestor with the registrant (e.g., a sibling, grandparent, aunt/uncle, or cousin);
  • a legal guardian of the registrant;
  • a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;
  • a personal representative of the registrant’s estate;
  • a person whose right to obtain a copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;
  • adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child’s natural or legal parents;
  • a person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony;
  • a person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and
  • a person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy.
If you are not able to establish a direct and tangible interest in the record, you are ineligible and will not be issued a certified copy of the record.



WILL NOT. Not by the Department. Not by the Governor.


http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscur..._0338-0018.htm
Quote:

§338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.
(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:
(1) The registrant;
(2) The spouse of the registrant;
(3) A parent of the registrant;
(4) A descendant of the registrant;
(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;
(6) A legal guardian of the registrant;
(7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;
(8) A personal representative of the registrant’s estate;
(9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;
(10) Adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and who need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child’s natural or legal parents;
(11) A person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony;
(12) A person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and
(13) A person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy.
(c) The department may permit the use [of] the data contained in public health statistical records for research purposes only, but no identifying use thereof shall be made.
(d) Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public.
(e) The department may permit persons working on genealogy projects access to microfilm or other copies of vital records of events that occurred more than seventy-five years prior to the current year.
(f) Subject to this section, the department may direct its local agents to make a return upon filing of birth, death, and fetal death certificates with them, of certain data shown to federal, state, territorial, county, or municipal agencies. Payment by these agencies for these services may be made as the department shall direct.
(g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:
(1) A person who has a direct and tangible interest in the record but requests a verification in lieu of a certified copy;
(2) A governmental agency or organization who for a legitimate government purpose maintains and needs to update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities;
(3) A governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks confirmation of a certified copy of any such record submitted in support of or information provided about a vital event relating to any such record and contained in an official application made in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities by an individual seeking employment with, entrance to, or the services or products of the agency or organization;
(4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings; or
(5) An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes. [L 1949, c 327, §22; RL 1955, §57-21; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; am L 1967, c 30, §2; HRS §338-18; am L 1977, c 118, §1; am L 1991, c 190, §1; am L 1997, c 305, §5; am L 2001, c 246, §2]
I can imagine Corsi's letter, now:
Dear Governor Lingle,


I am requesting that you break Hawaiian law for me, not because I believe you will or even because I believe you should, but because it will make my story far better when you turn me down.

So, for the record, I am officially asking you to release to me the long form of the Certificate of Birth of Barack Hussein Obama II.

Insincerely,

Jerome R. Corsi


</sarcasm>

Kooter, please. This was not news. This is trumped up crap for self-aggrandizement. It's like Geraldo's "Treasure of Al Capone," only less interesting, because the audience could look into the future even more here.
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Old 10-27-2008, 03:30 AM
 
2,195 posts, read 3,626,917 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Public_Newsense View Post
Not only no, he shouldn't be president if not born a citizen, but he!! no! As much as I like Gov Schwarzenegger, I have said the same about him. Too bad. If Obama really was born in Kenya, this entire election is the biggest farce this country has ever seen. It should never have come this far.
And the same if he was born on Mars.

This is one of the funny things about logic. It permits the speaker to utter anything as a premise and create a true statement, without its having any relevance.

"If Obama is really only 20 years old, then he shouldn't be president. Not only no, but he!! no!"

Yeah, so? He wasn't born in Kenya. He wasn't born in Canada. He is not really the secret, lost half-brother, brought in in place of the real Barack Obama when that one died in 1962. He's not a part of an early government cloning program gone terribly wrong (or right).
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Old 10-27-2008, 03:43 AM
 
Location: Everybody is going to hurt you, you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for-B Marley
9,516 posts, read 19,948,499 times
Reputation: 9417
I'm just answering the question. If you don't like it, talk to the original poster. And while you're here, mind sharing your sources with us on where Obama was born? If they were saying McCain were born in Ireland I'd want proof otherwise, too so don't get your skivvies in a wad.
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:26 AM
 
2,195 posts, read 3,626,917 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Writs of Mandamus are more common at the state than federal level but I believe someone filed a writ against Labor Secretary Elain Chao to force her to take certain actions under the law.
Asked and answered, Counselor:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post
The Writ of Mandamus can only force a body to do what it is supposed to do, and only one of the bodies he has sued may have any jurisdiction over this issue - the U.S. Senate Committee.

Given the lack of standing issue, though, it is extremely unlikely that that approach would work, either.
From Richardson:
Quote:
If, through the political process, Congress determines that citizens, voters, or party members should police the Constitution's eligibility requirements for the Presidency, then it is free to pass laws conferring standing on individuals like Plaintiff. Until that time, voters do not have standing to bring the sort of challenge that Plaintiff attempts to bring in the Amended Complaint.
From Lujan
Quote:
"Since (elements of standing) are not mere pleading requirements but rather an indespensable part of plaintiff's case each element must be supported in the same way as any other matter on which the plaintiff has the burden of proof..."
From Raduga:
Quote:
[SIZE=2]The process of convincing the court to compel a government agency to take action is very complicated; it involves proving that the plaintiff has standing, a proper venue, and the right to ask for mandamus. Standing, in itself, entails “an [actual] invasion of legally protected interest,” a clear path of injury from the defendant to the plaintiff, and an understanding that a mandamus would help the situation.

[/SIZE][SIZE=2]Finally, asking for a writ of mandamus has three parts: (1) that the claim is clear and certain, (2)that the duty in question is objective and easily arranged, and (3) that there is no other possible solution.


From U.S. Code 28 USC Section 1361 (also known as the Mandamus Act):
Quote:
[/SIZE]Section 1361. Action to compel an officer of the United States to perform his duty The district courts shall have original jurisdiction of any
action in the nature of mandamus to compel an officer or employee
of the United States or any agency thereof to perform a duty owed
to the plaintiff.
[SIZE=2][/SIZE][SIZE=2]From the American Immigration Law Foundation's Mandamus "How to" Guide:[/SIZE][SIZE=3]
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]
Quote:
This statute authorizes the court to order a remedy. It does not provide
independent, substantive grounds for a suit. That is, the plaintiff still must allege a
sufficient claim for relief and standing to bring the action. The Mandamus Act
provides the remedy once the plaintiff has alleged the cause of action and
established her or his standing to bring suit.
In a prior post, I quoted the late Chief Justice Burger on the topic of standing, in
Richardson a segment of which I quote again, above.

What I had not commented upon, previously, was that Richardson is a
Mandamus Act case.
[/SIZE]The same problems with standing that applied in Berg, Hollander, and Jones apply with any request for a Writ of Mandamus, even if one knew which governmental body should be forced to act. (And it can't be the FEC - one must exhaust all administrative remedies before Mandamus can be put into play, and that is not going to happen in a reasonable time frame.)
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:32 AM
 
2,195 posts, read 3,626,917 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Public_Newsense View Post
I'm just answering the question. If you don't like it, talk to the original poster. And while you're here, mind sharing your sources with us on where Obama was born? If they were saying McCain were born in Ireland I'd want proof otherwise, too so don't get your skivvies in a wad.
I shared them aplenty in another thread.

Briefly, the Department of Health, the legally sufficient certificate of live birth that the skeptics won't accept, the fact that the U.S. Dept. of State accepted the certificate of live birth, the presence of a birth announcement in the Honolulu Advertiser, the explanation of the researcher on how the Advertiser and the Bureau of Vital Statistics worked back then...

"They" can say anything and are so doing. Witness the news that the judge's decision "may have been written by somebody else and sent to him."
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:58 AM
 
16,433 posts, read 22,107,952 times
Reputation: 9622
Repeating myself, if there was any substance to this claim, the Republican campaign would already be using it to disqualify Obama. They aren't, it isn't. There is nothing here. BTW I'm voting McCain.
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Old 10-27-2008, 08:00 AM
 
Location: On Top
12,373 posts, read 13,148,407 times
Reputation: 4027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooter View Post
Obama's birth certificate sealed by Hawaii governor
Says Democratic senator must make request to obtain original document


Posted: October 26, 2008
9:54 pm Eastern
By Jerome R. Corsi
Source: WorldNetDaily



HONOLULU, Hawaii – Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – WND has learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal, and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.
The governor's office officially declined a request made in writing by WND in Hawaii to obtain a copy of the hospital-generated original birth certificate of Barack Obama.[Mod edited for copyright]
This tells me that Obama has already proven to the proper authorities that he is eligible to run for POTUS and that the press, Corsi, Berg et al has no business seeing his original BC.
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Old 10-27-2008, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,366 posts, read 28,600,305 times
Reputation: 11989
[quote=plannine;5851352]It doesn't matter where he was born. His mother was a American citizen. So is he. So all other statements are invalid.[/QUOTE]


Yes it certainly does matter!!
I'm not doubting he was born in Hawaii, I'm sure if there was an ounch of truth to his not being born here Arnold in California would be all over it !!!
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:06 AM
 
Location: West, Southwest, East & Northeast
3,463 posts, read 7,282,975 times
Reputation: 871
Obama has presented a Certificate of LIVE BIRTH from the state of Hawaii, but it is NOT a certified copy (or the original) of his Birth Certificate - just "Live Birth". Furthermore, the certificate he presented is a very recent document that is printed using LASER paper and the form has a revision date far more recent than his birth date in 1961. Laser printing was not done in 1961.

Look at the document that many people think is Obama's birth certificate. It is not a birth certificate! If Hawaii had the original birth certificate they would have copied the original document. This is not a copy of the original birth certificate, but just a certificate of "live birth"...which has incorrect information on it that was provided to Hawaiian authorities. A certificate of live birth is not a very important document therefore Hawaii did not make sure the information was accurate. Ask people in Hawaii if their Birth Certificate looks like this certificate of Live Birth and they will tell you that theirs does not.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/5872507-post173.html

Last edited by Kootr; 10-27-2008 at 11:17 AM..
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