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Old 11-03-2008, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Albemarle, NC
7,730 posts, read 12,697,065 times
Reputation: 1505

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Well, I could make a hat, or a brooch, or a pterodactyl. *awwk!* *awwk!*
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Old 11-03-2008, 09:56 AM
 
394 posts, read 452,211 times
Reputation: 87
That's understandable. I know if McCain/Palin win I would want to move out of the United States, mainly because it just reinforces to me that the majority of the people in this country are easily manipulated tools. Bush's re-election showed us how the American public can be EASILY tricked and scared into making bad decisions. We've done it too many times in a row and if McCain wins there is no change in sight. That's a scary place to be in.
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Old 11-03-2008, 09:58 AM
 
Location: NJ
56 posts, read 95,041 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
A friend of mine, someone I work with, has a son attending school in England. This is the first election in which he is eligible to vote. He made this comment: "I will not move back to the U.S. if McCain-Palin win, simple as that."

Thoughts?

Who cares?

If he's not interested in being a productive member of the US if his candidate isn't elected, let him stay in England. And pay their taxes. And get his job over there, if it's so much better. That grass must be awfully green across the pond.

I love my country regardless of who is in office. I may have disliked a certain president, but I still love my country. I've never hated it enough to move elsewhere, based on who occupies the office. This country is stronger than its president. That kid is just too young to realize it. Sounds like just an immature case of "If I don't get my way, I'll .... (fill in your own blank)."
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:04 AM
 
1,989 posts, read 3,934,331 times
Reputation: 1386
In the America I was raised in, I was taught to be proud of our country because it was "free" and "just." We didn't spy on our citizens, we didn't intimidate or censor the press, we didn't secretly arrest people and torture them, our government was honest with us and not a bold-faced propaganda machine, anyone could be any religion (or no religion) and still be American.

I WAS proud of this country.

If I want to change it back to what it stood for, does that make me un-American or un-Patriotic? If I'm voting and fighting to restore our country to what our Founding Fathers envisioned, do I love the country any less than anyone else? Or do I love it more.

The erosion of American principals in the last eight years has been shocking and alarming. This is not the country I grew up in. This is Amerika, home of the lied-to and land of the frightened. I'd like to help preserve the country we all like to brag about, but right now I live in a country that un-Constitutionally spies on its citizens, controls the press through intimidation and increasingly is marginalizing (or attacking) anyone who isn't a Christian.

I can tolerate a McCain Whitehouse. I will watch it carefully though.

However, if something happens to McCain and Palin is sworn in, I am fleeing this country as quickly as I can get my family out of it.

For those who say "Good riddance," I'm sure that's what the "patriotic" Germans said to those fleeing Germany as the Nazis came to power. However, after a while, citizens COULDN'T flee Germany (see quotes from a Holocaust survivor below). If Palin becomes President, I love this country, but I'm getting out while the getting's good.


Why I Did Not Leave Nazi Germany in Time

10. Now there was this true tragedy: in the measure that the need to emigrate became evident, in the same measure the opportunities for emigrating decreased rapidly and radically. The American immigration quota was overdrawn, and the consulates handed out waiting numbers that stretched ahead years into the future. The certificates for Palestine sharply decreased because the mandatory power did not want to alienate the Arabs. As far as England itself was concerned, the demand for housemaids -- one of the few ways of being admitted to England, except for a number of children transports -- was saturated. Those countries that sold entry visas asked ever-higher sums, and there were ever fewer Jews who could raise the money.

All in all, long before the German exit door was slammed shut, immigration countries barricaded themselves effectively against the Jews. The causes were economic and social, combined with the fear of displeasing Hitler or outright sympathy with his goals and methods, among them anti-Semitism. By that time, every Jew in Germany spoke his own “Get thee out,” but God did not show him a land.

11. I wonder whether those who ask such a question as “Why did you not leave Germany while there was still time?” realize that not everyone could have emigrated. There were definite qualifications and conditions, and those who did not meet them could not leave. Our conversations were governed by such things as affidavits, sponsors, certificates, quotas and visas, requirements of age, skills and health, relatives abroad, rumored loopholes in immigration laws from New Zealand to Chile. Thousands, tens of thousands of German Jews simply could not emigrate if their life depended on it -- which it did. And if I, a healthy young man with a certain sense of adventure, could not emigrate, what about young children and old people, the sick and the handicapped?
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:04 AM
 
20,853 posts, read 39,090,718 times
Reputation: 19115
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
A friend of mine, someone I work with, has a son attending school in England. This is the first election in which he is eligible to vote. He made this comment: "I will not move back to the U.S. if McCain-Palin win, simple as that."

Thoughts?
Nothing at all wrong with his logic. I'm a proud, flag waving citizen, worked 30 years for the Army, and I believe in the promise of American. However, in all my life, I've never been so embarrassed to be an American, all due to the buffoonish behavior of the Bush crowd; like that proposed constitutional amendment to define marriage (prohibit gay marriage) and other insipid and hateful evango-fascist initiatives. Time after time, Bush, Rove, Cheney, Dobson, DeLay, Lott, Frist, Gonzo, ********, Michael Brown, et al, have made us the laughing stock of the world. I won't travel overseas until we kick that criminal mob out of DC and sanitize the place with flame guns.

I considered moving to Europe when I retired, and may still do it for many reasons, but one of my reasons for thinking about it was the utter garbage that Bush has been as a leader. Germany would be my best choice, one side of my family came from there; Germany has a market based health care system that is excellent and not at all like the British plan; Germany has great trains to the point you do not need a car to get anywhere; their food and beer are pure; you can walk to most anything in your town, etc. Being he's in London, I'm sure your friend's son has seen what real civilization has to offer, I FULLY understand his logic, and I agree with it wholeheartedly.

NOTE to all the usual IDIOTS who are going to throw that childish bumper sticker slogan at me (love it or leave it): shut up, grow up, and do something to improve our nation, else you should leave, not me.
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Road Warrior
2,015 posts, read 4,999,161 times
Reputation: 798
Tell him we kicked the Kings arse back in 1776 and that's why we are proud to be Americans. Whether Obama wins or McCain wins, Americans voted for their president. I am not happy with either choice but it's democracy at work and I am happy with democracy. I can tell you there are plenty of English immigrant men and women in recent decades fleeing their own country due to their failed policies and you can find them in any major city in the United States.
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:06 AM
 
1,989 posts, read 3,934,331 times
Reputation: 1386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toosday View Post

Who cares?

If he's not interested in being a productive member of the US if his candidate isn't elected, let him stay in England. And pay their taxes. And get his job over there, if it's so much better. That grass must be awfully green across the pond.

I love my country regardless of who is in office.
I may have disliked a certain president, but I still love my country. I've never hated it enough to move elsewhere, based on who occupies the office. This country is stronger than its president. That kid is just too young to realize it. Sounds like just an immature case of "If I don't get my way, I'll .... (fill in your own blank)."
I am certain you are paraphrasing patriotic Germans of the 1920's and 30's. How young are you that you think countries are incorruptible?
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Over There
5,129 posts, read 4,771,058 times
Reputation: 1205
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
A friend of mine, someone I work with, has a son attending school in England. This is the first election in which he is eligible to vote. He made this comment: "I will not move back to the U.S. if McCain-Palin win, simple as that."

Thoughts?
He is an idiot?!? *shrugs*
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Halfway between Number 4 Privet Drive and Forks, WA
1,516 posts, read 4,202,529 times
Reputation: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toosday View Post

Who cares?

If he's not interested in being a productive member of the US if his candidate isn't elected, let him stay in England. And pay their taxes. And get his job over there, if it's so much better. That grass must be awfully green across the pond.

I love my country regardless of who is in office. I may have disliked a certain president, but I still love my country. I've never hated it enough to move elsewhere, based on who occupies the office. This country is stronger than its president. That kid is just too young to realize it. Sounds like just an immature case of "If I don't get my way, I'll .... (fill in your own blank)."

Ditto.
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:09 AM
 
Location: NJ
56 posts, read 95,041 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by cohdane View Post
In the America I was raised in, I was taught to be proud of our country because it was "free" and "just." We didn't spy on our citizens, we didn't intimidate or censor the press, we didn't secretly arrest people and torture them, our government was honest with us and not a bold-faced propaganda machine, anyone could be any religion (or no religion) and still be American.

I WAS proud of this country.

If I want to change it back to what it stood for, does that make me un-American or un-Patriotic? If I'm voting and fighting to restore our country to what our Founding Fathers envisioned, do I love the country any less than anyone else? Or do I love it more.

The erosion of American principals in the last eight years has been shocking and alarming. This is not the country I grew up in. This is Amerika, home of the lied-to and land of the frightened. I'd like to help preserve the country we all like to brag about, but right now I live in a country that un-Constitutionally spies on its citizens, controls the press through intimidation and increasingly is marginalizing (or attacking) anyone who isn't a Christian.

I can tolerate a McCain Whitehouse. I will watch it carefully though.

However, if something happens to McCain and Palin is sworn in, I am fleeing this country as quickly as I can get my family out of it.

For those who say "Good riddance," I'm sure that's what the "patriotic" Germans said to those fleeing Germany as the Nazis came to power. However, after a while, citizens COULDN'T flee Germany (see quotes from a Holocaust survivor below). If Palin becomes President, I love this country, but I'm getting out while the getting's good.


Why I Did Not Leave Nazi Germany in Time

10. Now there was this true tragedy: in the measure that the need to emigrate became evident, in the same measure the opportunities for emigrating decreased rapidly and radically. The American immigration quota was overdrawn, and the consulates handed out waiting numbers that stretched ahead years into the future. The certificates for Palestine sharply decreased because the mandatory power did not want to alienate the Arabs. As far as England itself was concerned, the demand for housemaids -- one of the few ways of being admitted to England, except for a number of children transports -- was saturated. Those countries that sold entry visas asked ever-higher sums, and there were ever fewer Jews who could raise the money.

All in all, long before the German exit door was slammed shut, immigration countries barricaded themselves effectively against the Jews. The causes were economic and social, combined with the fear of displeasing Hitler or outright sympathy with his goals and methods, among them anti-Semitism. By that time, every Jew in Germany spoke his own “Get thee out,” but God did not show him a land.

11. I wonder whether those who ask such a question as “Why did you not leave Germany while there was still time?” realize that not everyone could have emigrated. There were definite qualifications and conditions, and those who did not meet them could not leave. Our conversations were governed by such things as affidavits, sponsors, certificates, quotas and visas, requirements of age, skills and health, relatives abroad, rumored loopholes in immigration laws from New Zealand to Chile. Thousands, tens of thousands of German Jews simply could not emigrate if their life depended on it -- which it did. And if I, a healthy young man with a certain sense of adventure, could not emigrate, what about young children and old people, the sick and the handicapped?

Oh, please, comparing a McCain presidency to Nazi Germany? McCain would HARDLY be an Adolf Hitler. SURELY, that is NOT what you're saying.

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