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Old 11-16-2008, 03:17 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,332 posts, read 26,357,163 times
Reputation: 11328

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbear48 View Post
We are on the same side on this issue.



Maybe , I don't know.

I do Know that it's down ,now, on change.gov and ,last time I checked still up on his campaign site. So there is no Clintonish attempt
to hide the evidence.

A so-called Assault Weapons Ban is just a political loser issue. The votes in Congress just are not there.

It's a good thing.
I disagree, the votes are there.
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Old 11-16-2008, 05:12 PM
 
820 posts, read 1,198,568 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
I disagree, the votes are there.
We'll see what happens.
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Old 11-16-2008, 05:15 PM
 
1,958 posts, read 2,483,907 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by meson View Post
I think it's to make up for their lack of manhood.
Nawwww, that's the loud rap garbage you're speaking of.
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:41 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,790,837 times
Reputation: 2519
Hmmmm.take a look at the firearm this man is armed with....



What is interesting is this is part of the Secret Service detail protecting President elect Obama...armed with firearms that Obama states belong on foreign battlefields NOT American streets....
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Old 11-27-2008, 07:18 PM
 
1,535 posts, read 1,627,990 times
Reputation: 385
[SIZE=2]
[CENTER]
Concealed carry laws and Mass Public shootings



[/CENTER]
There is empirical evidence this policy works. The most comprehensive research to date on the relationship between concealed carry laws and mass public shootings was published in 2003 by an economics professor at Yale University, John R. Lott, in his book titled, “The Bias Against Gunsâ€.

John Lott is a renowned economist from Yale University whose study is the most comprehensive and methodologically sound analysis ever conducted on the relationship between firearms and crime. The study was conducted over a period of 18 years and incorporated over 3,000 counties nationwide. Over a dozen peer statisticians have replicated the results of his research, and his conclusions have withstood even the most rigid scrutiny. His research was first presented in the Journal of Legal Studied and a forum at the CATO Institute. Summaries of his most compelling conclusions are:

- CCW permit holders are virtually never involved in the commission of any crime, much less murder
- Since 1997, 30% of all school shootings have been stopped by a citizen using a firearm. Only 1% of the news stories that cover these school shootings mention this…this is very dangerous for public policy measures that rely on real and accurate data to determine deterrence actions.
- States without CCW laws account for 90% of the incidents, deaths, and injuries from public mass shootings
- States enacting CCW laws have seen an average reduction of 78% in deaths and injuries from mass shootings.
- States with less restrictive CCW laws have seen the greatest reduction in attacks, deaths, and injuries from mass shootings. AR is unfortunately one of the top 7 most restrictive. The lifting of prohibited areas such as schools and churches would have the most significant further reducing effects, seeing as these are the most common places targeted by mass killers.
- Limiting the places where permit holders are allowed to carry increases the overall number of attacks, deaths, and injuries in those prohibited areas
- The only firearm law that reduces public mass shootings is the enactment of CCW laws...

... Concealed carry holders are the best prevention policy. According to the National Center for Policy Analysis, who conducted a study of Texas concealed carry revocation rates in the year 2000, Texas concealed carry holders proved to be 5.7 times less likely to commit a violent crime, and 14 times less likely to commit a non-violent offense.

I recently received from State Police Headquarters the yearly number of revocations of all Arkansas licensees since our law was put into affect 12 years ago (146 total). For all offenses that would lead to a revocation, Arkansas concealed carry holders were shown to be almost 300% more law-abiding than Texan concealed carry holders, so imagine how much less likely our licensees are to commit violent or non-violent crimes… this is truly a tribute to the men and women in Arkansas who carry concealed.

As for violent crime in Arkansas; in 2004 there were 5 violent offenses out of 51,000 total licensees, in 2005 there were 3 offenses out of 54,000, and in 2006 there was 1 violent crime out of 57,000 total licensees.

To put this into perspective, the US Department of Justice estimated the violent crime rate in 2005, at a 40-year all time low… 21 violent crimes per 1,000 citizens. If you extrapolate the violent crime data of Arkansas concealed carry holders above, this gives a rate of .1 in 2004, .06 in 2005, and .02 in 2006…or 1000 times less the violent crime rate of the average American citizen. I presented this data to the House Judiciary Committee in February of this year.

Arkansas concealed carry holders are some of the most law abiding individuals in the country…much more so than the average citizen or police officer…and are the default best solution to preventing the atrocities that have affected so many of our children.

http://www.arkansascca.org/blog/inde...nt=detail&id=5


[/SIZE]
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Old 11-27-2008, 07:52 PM
 
3,292 posts, read 4,458,256 times
Reputation: 822
Man gun companies must be thrilled by the profits they're going to make from people losing their minds for the next 4 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbear48 View Post
Edit to add: We won , you lost.
So find another hobby and leave our legal guns alone.
Get over it. Mr. Obama has more important things to do.
I agree, I don't think anyone really cares about gun rights and it's just an issue that's used to make conservatives lose their mind and vote for the other guy.

I mean do people really think that with how pretty much everything is going downhill these guys are going to spend their time on minor (by comparison) issues like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
I disagree, the votes are there.
Is that your opinion or a fact? I can disagree with a lot of things, people don't want to waste their time voting on your lame hobby.
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Old 11-27-2008, 08:12 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,290 posts, read 87,078,539 times
Reputation: 55549
any and all weapons are appropriate if someone is trying to kill rape or mug you or a loved one.
decriminalize self defense now. outlaw personal injury suits if committed while in the commission of a crime and our prisons will become empty. our police and citizens will not longer run and hide.
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Old 11-27-2008, 08:46 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,899,935 times
Reputation: 15037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
any and all weapons are appropriate if someone is trying to kill rape or mug you or a loved one.
decriminalize self defense now. outlaw personal injury suits if committed while in the commission of a crime and our prisons will become empty. our police and citizens will not longer run and hide.
Oh, puleeeze! Your Barrett 82A1 is appropriate for rapist, your mugger and how many innocent bystanders 600 yards in the background? I like guns as much as the next guy, I made my living with them for 4 years of life and I've owned more than my share of them over the years but frankly, I knew my fellow gun aficionados have truly gone off the deep end when I was challenged for not possessing a weapon in my personal arsenal with an effective range of 300 meters. Dude, I'm not going to worrying about returning fire on someone at 100 meters much less 300!

Over the years, I have taken tactical shooting classes with folks who just plumb suffer from a hyper-active imagination and Rambo delusions. No, I don't need a Class 3 tactical Remington 870, no I don't need a Bushmaster M4 with an Aimpoint sighting system nor do I need to carry, two extra 15 round mags when I go to the local stop and rob.

What I do need and possess is an accurate and dependable weapon, with a reasonable magazine capacity, and enough judgement to recognize a problem and the brains to avoid it.

For all the worst case scenarios, the person who is going to most likely put your life in peril is a drunken friend or a pissed off relative.

So, having gotten that off my chest, let me say this. What we do need is stronger enforcement of many existing gun laws and we DO need to close a number of loop holds that allow nefarious individuals from being domestic gun runners. Unfortunately gun control, or the lack thereof, has become a wing-nut issue. It is high time for the grown ups to say, hey, let's find a middle ground. Allow people to purchase reasonably acceptable weapons for personal protection, while removing unreasonable weapons from our streets and the criminal element.
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Old 11-27-2008, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,137,125 times
Reputation: 6549
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Oh, puleeeze! Your Barrett 82A1 is appropriate for rapist, your mugger and how many innocent bystanders 600 yards in the background? I like guns as much as the next guy, I made my living with them for 4 years of life and I've owned more than my share of them over the years but frankly, I knew my fellow gun aficionados have truly gone off the deep end when I was challenged for not possessing a weapon in my personal arsenal with an effective range of 300 meters. Dude, I'm not going to worrying about returning fire on someone at 100 meters much less 300!

Over the years, I have taken tactical shooting classes with folks who just plumb suffer from a hyper-active imagination and Rambo delusions. No, I don't need a Class 3 tactical Remington 870, no I don't need a Bushmaster M4 with an Aimpoint sighting system nor do I need to carry, two extra 15 round mags when I go to the local stop and rob.

What I do need and possess is an accurate and dependable weapon, with a reasonable magazine capacity, and enough judgement to recognize a problem and the brains to avoid it.

For all the worst case scenarios, the person who is going to most likely put your life in peril is a drunken friend or a pissed off relative.

So, having gotten that off my chest, let me say this. What we do need is stronger enforcement of many existing gun laws and we DO need to close a number of loop holds that allow nefarious individuals from being domestic gun runners. Unfortunately gun control, or the lack thereof, has become a wing-nut issue. It is high time for the grown ups to say, hey, let's find a middle ground. Allow people to purchase reasonably acceptable weapons for personal protection, while removing unreasonable weapons from our streets and the criminal element.
A fair post.... I agree for the most part. Too many get hung up on an all or nothing view point on both sides. Nothing wrong with a more indepth background check.
If I had my way anyone caught using a firearm in commission of a crime should get an automatic death penalty. Gunshops that don't do the required paper work etc. should be closed down and fined. Also be held accountable.
Enforce the existing laws..... Writing more laws and failing to enforce will change nothing. Punishing honest gun owners accomplishes nothing.
Punish the criminals and the only ones who will argue about it will be the ACLU and criminals.

Last edited by tinman01; 11-27-2008 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:36 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,899,935 times
Reputation: 15037
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Nothing wrong with a more indepth background check.


Quote:
If I had my way anyone caught using a firearm in commission of a crime should get an automatic death penalty.
A bit draconian, and that was a massive understatement.

Quote:
Gunshops that don't do the required paper work etc. should be closed down and fined.


Quote:
Enforce the existing laws..... Writing more laws and failing to enforce will change nothing. Punishing honest gun owners accomplishes nothing.


How about a limit on gun purchases per month? Here in Pennsylvania there have been attempts to limit handgun purchases to one a month as a way to lessen the number of straw purchases. Apparently this is too much for the gun lobby, but I would love someone to explain to me why 12 handguns per years (exemption for true curios and antiques) is an unreasonable restriction.

Hmmm, a Glock 23, a Kimber Custom II and maybe a Uberti Schofield, maybe. So what do I get with my other 9 purchases???
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