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Old 11-28-2008, 06:31 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,332 posts, read 26,355,074 times
Reputation: 11328

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
Nice breath of fresh air. I agree 100%. I have used all kinds of weapons during my military years, some I know that our gun fanatic friends on this forum would trip all over themselves to get their hands on. I have no issues with people having guns for hunting,sport, or for a reasonable degree of domestic protection.

But when we are engaged as a society in discussing whether we should now arm all of our children to go to class every day for their own protection that tells me something is seriously wrong that needs fixing.
I know the Brady Campaign refers to even 21 year old individuals as children in their statistics for the purposes of sensationalism saying "X children are..." but college tudents are not "children" like those in elementary, middle and high school. Rather, they are adults, and have the same rights as other adults...including the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense...disarming victims and treating adults like children never works.
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Old 11-28-2008, 06:33 PM
 
1,229 posts, read 3,236,597 times
Reputation: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Define gun nut.
Anyone who thinks that the text of the second amendment (A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed) actually has any relevant meaning in today’s world; anyone who thinks that any politician will ever pass laws that will significantly reduce your ability to own as many guns as you can afford; anyone who went out and loaded up the arsenal because Obama got elected; anyone who reads this posts and then replies with any one of a thousand tired arguments about why I am an ignorant liberty-hating idiot.

Guns are a fact of life here in the US. Fine. You have yours, I have mine. If they ever reenact a form of the AWB you will still have access to more than enough guns to arm a well regulated militia, shoot any animals you want, and to protect you and yours from all of those bad guys banging at your door.
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Old 11-28-2008, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,408 posts, read 7,770,408 times
Reputation: 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
I know the Brady Campaign refers to even 21 year old individuals as children in their statistics for the purposes of sensationalism saying "X children are..." but college tudents are not "children" like those in elementary, middle and high school. Rather, they are adults, and have the same rights as other adults...including the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense...disarming victims and treating adults like children never works.
College students have much higher statistical incidents of depression, alcoholism and mental health issues than society at large.

There are reasons the legal age to drink is set at 21 and not 18. There are also reasons that students under 21 cannot purchase handguns. They are still in formative years and many are living on their own for the first time in their lives.

If you let them all have guns for self defense you will just see an upswing in college suicide by guns and college deaths by firearm in drunken mishaps.
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Old 11-28-2008, 06:50 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,897,598 times
Reputation: 15037
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Define gun nut. What number of guns would qualify someone as a gun nut?
More than would be necessary to defend one's person:

(2) one hand gun and a shotgun.

More than would be necessary to hunt (per persons):

1 fouling gun.

1. Skeet gun

1. Deer Rifle/Slug rifle

1. Black powder.

1. Large animal (300 Wmag)

1. Dangerous animal (.375 H&H mag)

Anyone owning one or more Class III automatic weapons and isn't employed by Black Water.

Anyone who owns 10 or more antiques or curios that weren't passed down through inheritance.

Anyone who believes that owning a .50 Barrett, an Assault style rifle.

I would also divide gun nuts into to categories, those who are benign and those who are malignant.

Benign, persons like myself (and I am a recovering gun nut) who just loves guns in all shapes and sizes simply because of their workmanship, mechanical innovation, and because as a kid growing up with them I think they are cool.

Malignant, those persons who believe that ANY legislation restricting the purchase and possession of firearms, and who think that they need to be armed to the teeth for the upcoming (insert your favorite) economic crisis, race war, foreign invasion, contemplated insurrection, or absent that the errant trespasser.


Quote:
Is it defined by the action of the gun?
Is it defined by how the gun looks? That guy has a gun that looks like a military gun he must be a gun nut?
I own 9 fire arms am I a nut?
I target shoot, trap shoot and on occasion hunt. My guns are kept in a gun safe unloaded and clean. Does owning a gun safe make someone a nut?

Probably, the question then becomes what kind, benign or malignant.
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:25 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,332 posts, read 26,355,074 times
Reputation: 11328
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
College students have much higher statistical incidents of depression, alcoholism and mental health issues than society at large.

There are reasons the legal age to drink is set at 21 and not 18. There are also reasons that students under 21 cannot purchase handguns. They are still in formative years and many are living on their own for the first time in their lives.

If you let them all have guns for self defense you will just see an upswing in college suicide by guns and college deaths by firearm in drunken mishaps.
Yet they can join the military and control weapons civilians can't even own...

Anyways: actually the federal minimum age to own a handgun is 18, but to buy them at a dealer it's 21. Parents frequently give handguns to 18-21 year-olds. The vast, vast majority of the time, there's no problem. Anyone 18 and over can go buy a long gun from a dealer. So your argument that "If you let them all have guns for self defense you will just see an upswing in college suicide by guns and college deaths by firearm in drunken mishaps" is flat out wrong. In several states 16-year olds can carry firearms without parental consent (Vermont is one of them).

Making colleges victim disarmament zones only makes it simple for mass murderers to get away with and succeed at their evil plans.
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:35 PM
 
1,229 posts, read 3,236,597 times
Reputation: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Define gun nut.
Anyone who uses the phrase "victim disarmament zones" . . .
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
36,818 posts, read 18,718,207 times
Reputation: 14667
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
So what you're saying, is you don't want individuals to be able to sell their own guns to friends, relatives, neighbors, etc.? There is no "gun show loophole," same rules apply at gun shows as at any other place. If the person you bought from was an actual "dealer" selling guns for a living, he was breaking the law already. If he was just another private individual selling off a few guns...you're being deliberately misleading and deceptive just like the brady group always is. The killer at VA Tech bought a gun at a normal licensed dealer and passed the NICS check...because the records showing he was disqualified were not sent to the department that handles the checks. Government officials did not do their job.
Not deceptive in the least. The pistol I purchased should have gone through a registration process before it changed hands whether it came from the possessor of an FFL or whether it was sold by an individual. I have nothing to hide. No one who is guiltless should have any troubles with having handguns registered. If you are opposed to registration, there must be a motive of some type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
And BTW: the federal government may only regulate interstate commerce not that which takes place within a state. If a person sells a gun to someone from a different state it must go through a dealer (intertsate commerce).
If no one verifies the address of a prospective buyer OR EVEN ASKS, it's sort of difficult to tell whether interstate commerce laws apply, now isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
This whole thing is aimed at making guns more expensive to buy...dealers charge often $20 to, in DC, over $100, to transfer a gun to someone from other states. The real agenda...
So what's $20 compared to pride of ownership? If the $20 fee keeps a gun out of the hands of one criminal, it is well worth the investment.



Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
As I've said before on other threads...I'm not a single issue voter, but some things are vote killers for me. I take all my rights seriously...freedom of speech, religion, right to keep and bear arms...anyone who advocates infringing on any rights, any of them, loses my vote.
You must not have voted for George W. Bush, then who said of the Constitution, and I quote: "It's just a goddamned piece of paper". Google it.

W has trampled on more of your rights than all previous presidents in history.
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,408 posts, read 7,770,408 times
Reputation: 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Anyways: actually the federal minimum age to own a handgun is 18, but to buy them at a dealer it's 21. Parents frequently give handguns to 18-21 year-olds. The vast, vast majority of the time, there's no problem. Anyone 18 and over can go buy a long gun from a dealer. So your argument that "If you let them all have guns for self defense you will just see an upswing in college suicide by guns and college deaths by firearm in drunken mishaps" is flat out wrong. In several states 16-year olds can carry firearms without parental consent (Vermont is one of them).

Making colleges victim disarmament zones only makes it simple for mass murderers to get away with and succeed at their evil plans.
I see nothing in your post that would dispute my point. Suicide is the 3rd leading cause of death in 15-24 year olds and easy availability of a gun has been linked as a factor to many of these suicides and suicide attempts in young people.

It is really just common sense, as much as some would like to try to deny this to fit their political agenda.
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Old 11-28-2008, 08:02 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,332 posts, read 26,355,074 times
Reputation: 11328
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Not deceptive in the least. The pistol I purchased should have gone through a registration process before it changed hands whether it came from the possessor of an FFL or whether it was sold by an individual. I have nothing to hide. No one who is guiltless should have any troubles with having handguns registered. If you are opposed to registration, there must be a motive of some type.
What registration? There is no federal registration of handguns, and as far as I know, neither does SC. Registration does nothing anyways, to control crime, it's a waste.

Quote:
If no one verifies the address of a prospective buyer OR EVEN ASKS, it's sort of difficult to tell whether interstate commerce laws apply, now isn't it?
How do we know you're telling the truth about any of this incident? And, let's say for instance that private sales were banned: if that were the case, would criminals follow that law?


Quote:
So what's $20 compared to pride of ownership? If the $20 fee keeps a gun out of the hands of one criminal, it is well worth the investment.
No different than poll taxes and the argument used to defend those back in the day. I have several old Iver Johnson topbreak revolvers and such most of which were around $30, and an old H&R single shot shotgun I paid a whopping $10 for. If a person were poor and could only afford those cheaper guns, such a law could prevent them from exercising their rights.



Quote:
You must not have voted for George W. Bush, then who said of the Constitution, and I quote: "It's just a goddamned piece of paper". Google it.

W has trampled on more of your rights than all previous presidents in history.
This isn't about Bush. And FWIW, I wrote in third party candidates the last 3 pres. elections...
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Old 11-28-2008, 08:05 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,332 posts, read 26,355,074 times
Reputation: 11328
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
I see nothing in your post that would dispute my point. Suicide is the 3rd leading cause of death in 15-24 year olds and easy availability of a gun has been linked as a factor to many of these suicides and suicide attempts in young people.

It is really just common sense, as much as some would like to try to deny this to fit their political agenda.
Take away guns suicides by other means become more common. And why in the world would you strip millions of people of their rights for possibly a small number of people who might commit suicide when there are other ways they'll do it anyways? There are many dead people now from VA Tech and elsewhere, who wouldn't of been, had someone had a gun to fight back like at Appalachian School of Law.
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