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Old 11-08-2008, 09:54 AM
 
3,555 posts, read 7,820,415 times
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Mike from back east wrote;
Quote:
People need to get a copy of Bill Bradley's great book, The New American Way, as it contains an excellent discussion of at least 12 different wings or factions within the GOP.... but each has its own set of ideas and priorities, and they don't always compliment each other or work in unison.
Yes, excellent recommendation. The funny thing is that sometimes members of various factions do "collaborate", but it's generally just to fleece the suckers! Need more proof of this, read the transcripts of Jack Abramoff's testimony!

One of the first actions they should take is to discover that their "communication channel"-right wing radio, is no longer the only method to disseminate information. Until they do that they'll still have idiots like Brent Bozell (what a tool) blabbing on Monday and Tuesday that "Obama is running as a far left liberal", and on Friday coming out and saying "Obama ran a typical 'Reagan' campaign and platform".

The rise of the internet, while not able to bury Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Hannity, will at least provide a strong counterbalance to them. This will enable the "timid liberals" to refute the "water cooler lies" that get passed on as "general knowledge" by the know-nothings that listen to that carp 6 hours a day.

golfgod
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Old 11-08-2008, 10:36 AM
 
26,115 posts, read 48,712,075 times
Reputation: 31492
To 'rebuild' is the consensus of most looking at the issue. One of the few remaining intellectual conservatives still writing clearly states the case in today's Wall Street Journal: The Perils of 'Populist Chic' - WSJ.com

Excerpts:

- no matter our political affiliations, we should all, GOP and DEM alike, toast the return of Gov Sarah Palin to Juneau, AK...

- McCain's choice of Palin was not a fluke, a senior moment, or an act of desperation. It was the result of a long campaign by influential conservative intellectuals to find a young, populist leader to whom they might hitch their wagons in the future. And not just any intellectuals. It was the editors of National Review and the Weekly Standard, magazines that present themselves as heirs to the sophisticated conservatism of William F. Buckley and the bookish seriousness of the New York neoconservatives. After the campaign for Sarah Palin, those intellectual traditions may now be pronounced officially dead.

- So what happened? How could younger conservative intellectuals promote a candidate like Sarah Palin, whose ignorance, provinciality and populist demagoguery represent everything older conservative thinkers once stood against?

To get the answers, you'll have to read the WSJ article. Anyone serious about rebuilding the GOP needs to hit the link.
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Old 11-08-2008, 01:22 PM
 
26,115 posts, read 48,712,075 times
Reputation: 31492
Mike from back east wrote: People need to get a copy of Bill Bradley's great book, The New American Way, as it contains an excellent discussion of at least 12 different wings or factions within the GOP.... but each has its own set of ideas and priorities, and they don't always compliment each other or work in unison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgod View Post
Yes, excellent recommendation. The funny thing is that sometimes members of various factions do "collaborate", but it's generally just to fleece the suckers! Need more proof of this, read the transcripts of Jack Abramoff's testimony! golfgod
Yes, here are a couple of examples of the GOP factions. Amazing stuff to read about all 12 of them in Bradley's Book.

- Main Streeters (small business) vs the Corporatists (big business and Wall Streeters). Both have different aims. The Main Streeters want less govt spending and balanced budgets; are civic minded and charitable (living their values); they want no handouts or subsidies. Meanwhile the Corporatists don't fear govt - as long as THEY can control it, and they feel that with the GOP they can control the govt just fine (seems true, eh). The want govt money in the form of tax cuts for THEM (even if means deficit spending like we have with Bush) and at the same time they want less regulation. Although both of these factions are "businessmen" they are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

- The Subsidists (here in the west). They want less Federal regulation of western lands, yet want free, unregulated use of that land so they can graze herds of cattle, mine, cut down timber or get free water. The subsidists want LESS regulation of western land and MORE Federal money to subsidize their use of western timber, mining, grazing and irrigation. These people are two-faced hypocrites, one hand out for money, the hand in your face to say NO to oversight or regulatory strings on the use of that land.

You're right about them fleecing the country. The Main Streeters aren't so bad, but the Corporatists and the Subsidists are all about fleecing the taxpayers for their own gain.
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Old 11-08-2008, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,602 posts, read 26,213,541 times
Reputation: 12628
There were a lot of reasons that the campaign was a flop. I'm not at all convinced that McCain being too consecrative was one of them. Reagan was the definition of conservatism. If you're too young to remember, check out his electoral landslides in 1980 and 1984 at RCP. We haven't had unchecked liberalism in Washington in fourteen years. People tend to forget how bad that was. Don't worry, because Obama and Pelosi are about to remind them. As we speak the national left-leaning press that worked so hard for the Obama Campaign is running for cover. We've all seen posts on this forum already pointing out the fact that the school girl crush the press has had on Obama is not as obvious now that the election is over. We all know the still-softball questions he got at his press conference would have never been asked last week. The press will likely stick with Obama in the next cycle. I'm not sure that will change, and particularly if GE is properly rewarded for their participation in the Obama campaign as I expect they will be. But there is no excuse for losing the technology war.The rest will take care of itself when he fails as a president. See y'all in two years for the next Republican Revolution.
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Old 11-08-2008, 02:02 PM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,250,736 times
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"Look, Ma, I discovered the internet!"

It's going to take a lot more than putting up a few pretty blogs. If the GOP wants to take the White House again, they're going to have to kick out the fundies, invite in minorities and young people, and cut the size of government. I don't think it's possible. I see the GOP dividing in two.
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Old 11-08-2008, 07:58 PM
 
24,337 posts, read 22,887,254 times
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Obama will be the GOP's best friend, like Bush was the DNC's best friend. But we can expect both parties to give way to third parties.
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:48 PM
 
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Get rid of all the greedy b@stards, theocrats, and biggots and hope there is someone left.
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Old 11-12-2008, 02:42 PM
 
26,115 posts, read 48,712,075 times
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Ron Paul has a major interview on CNN today. He makes great sense, but for some reason no one takes him seriously. LINK:
- Commentary: GOP should ask why U.S. is on the wrong track - CNN.com

Key excerpt:

Once the Republicans were in power the promises faded and all policies were directed at maintaining or increasing power ... by acting like big-spending Democrats. The Republican Congress never once stood up against the Bush/Rove machine that demanded support for unconstitutional wars, attacks on civil liberties here at home, and an economic policy based on more spending, more debt, and more inflation -- while constantly preaching the flawed doctrine that deficits don't matter as long as taxes aren't raised. But what the Republican leadership didn't realize was that ALL spending is a tax on middle-class Americans through price inflation and that eventually the inevitable consequence is paying for the extravagance with a financial crisis. Why should one be excluded from the Republican Party for believing and always voting for:
• Limited government power
• A balanced budget
• Personal liberty
• Strict adherence to the Constitution
• Sound money
• A strong defense while avoiding all undeclared wars
• No nation-building and no policing the world


That part about all spending being a tax on middle-class Americans was the crux of Obama's successful campaign to ease the load on the middle class. Meanwhile, John McCain preached more Bush/Rovian tax cuts for the wealthiest which just means more red ink for the middle class to pay via inflation. Enough people saw the light on that and voted for Obama. I'm sure that Obama will be a better Republican than Bush ever was.

The "personal liberty" part of Ron Paul's platform does not sit well with the evango-fascist wingnuts of the GOP. To them, those words mean "abortion stays legal" and "gay rights," two topics that drive the American Taliban of Dobson, Robertson, et al, wild with hate. The current GOP does not think it can win without the support of the televangelist clowns, so I don't hold out much hope that the GOP will change enough to matter in the next 2-6 years.
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Old 11-12-2008, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,402 posts, read 28,828,599 times
Reputation: 19090
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
I can understand some folks feelings towards the Republican Party as a good deal of it is deserved. However, keep in mind that during the Bush administration there was a massive consolidation of power into the executive branch and an almost complete cessation of Congressional authority and oversight that is now in a single party rule. This can be a good thing and can even be a great thing but it can also be the kind of things that nightmares are made of.

I for one hope for a Republican resurgence if for no other reason than to keep some parity in government because I am of the opinion that it is never a good thing to have single party majority rule for more than a single term.
I agree--also I want to salute the OP for taking a positive step and exploring what needs to be done. That's a lot more productive than just sitting around griping. We need two strong parties. In fact, I'd like to see more than two strong parties.

As for the GOP... I think the GOP is a big tree with good roots. The problem is the tree has grown askew and some of the branches have rotted. It needs a severe pruning. The old nuts need to be shaken off--and IMO that means no longer catering to the evangelical members. Continuing the tree analogy, it might even need to be replanted. But the roots are good.
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Old 11-12-2008, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,642 posts, read 15,532,591 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Ron Paul has a major interview on CNN today. He makes great sense, but for some reason no one takes him seriously. LINK:
- Commentary: GOP should ask why U.S. is on the wrong track - CNN.com

Key excerpt:

Once the Republicans were in power the promises faded and all policies were directed at maintaining or increasing power ... by acting like big-spending Democrats. The Republican Congress never once stood up against the Bush/Rove machine that demanded support for unconstitutional wars, attacks on civil liberties here at home, and an economic policy based on more spending, more debt, and more inflation -- while constantly preaching the flawed doctrine that deficits don't matter as long as taxes aren't raised. But what the Republican leadership didn't realize was that ALL spending is a tax on middle-class Americans through price inflation and that eventually the inevitable consequence is paying for the extravagance with a financial crisis. Why should one be excluded from the Republican Party for believing and always voting for:
• Limited government power
• A balanced budget
• Personal liberty
• Strict adherence to the Constitution
• Sound money
• A strong defense while avoiding all undeclared wars
• No nation-building and no policing the world


That part about all spending being a tax on middle-class Americans was the crux of Obama's successful campaign to ease the load on the middle class. Meanwhile, John McCain preached more Bush/Rovian tax cuts for the wealthiest which just means more red ink for the middle class to pay via inflation. Enough people saw the light on that and voted for Obama. I'm sure that Obama will be a better Republican than Bush ever was.

The "personal liberty" part of Ron Paul's platform does not sit well with the evango-fascist wingnuts of the GOP. To them, those words mean "abortion stays legal" and "gay rights," two topics that drive the American Taliban of Dobson, Robertson, et al, wild with hate. The current GOP does not think it can win without the support of the televangelist clowns, so I don't hold out much hope that the GOP will change enough to matter in the next 2-6 years.

Until we get the GOP to stop the false propaganda "Big Government" speech, they're headed nowhere fast. Governor Palin was indeed a mainstream, wholesale rejection - and I agree - the "Mainstreeters" possess the only platform that stands a chance and seems reasonably palatble for today's society, and that will still take some time to build and bring to the forefront. There's a long battle ahead amid the rapid decimation and circular firing squads we're witnessing today.

"The Main Streeters want less govt spending and balanced budgets; are civic minded and charitable (living their values); they want no handouts or subsidies."

Good Posts.
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