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Old 12-20-2008, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Phoenix metro (Scottsdale), AZ
147 posts, read 338,980 times
Reputation: 100

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Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
It's a fact that the Bush Administration cooked the books in order to manipulate us, and Congress, and maneuver us into Iraq. And yes, we did invade Iraq, quotation marks or no quotation marks. (P.S. Name calling doesnt make you right, maybe your mother never taught you that? Plus it's against the C-D TOS.)
The only problem with "the Bush Administration [cooking] the books" is that every sinlge investigation (and gosh knows there has been a ton) hasn't proven anything to substantiate your claim. NOT A SINGLE ONE!!! Explain that please?

But I guess baseless acusations have become the theme for every "Bush Basher" person out there. Sorry, but smart people use facts to back up their posts. Not biased Michael Moore quotes.

P.S. It isn't name calling when I say liberals are spineless or a complete joke. My mother did teach me to never lie, and this is just calling it as I see it. Sorry if that is offensive....
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Old 12-20-2008, 01:57 PM
 
34,990 posts, read 34,750,515 times
Reputation: 6163
Default It isn't ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Then why did (in 2004) the Senate Intelligence Committee unanimously approve a report acknowledging that it "did not find any evidence that administration officials attempted to coerce, influence or pressure analysts to change their judgments?

The following year, why did the bipartisan Robb-Silberman report similarly find "no indication that the intelligence community distort the evidence regarding WMD in Iraq?"

Either Bush AND the entire international intelligence community AND the Senate and House intelligence committee "lied" or none of them did.
It can't be both ways.
Robb-Silberman -
On the November 14 edition of CNN's Paula Zahn Now, Wall Street Journal columnist John Fund falsely claimed that former "Democratic Senator Chuck Robb [VA] headed a commission which looked into whether or not the president misled and manipulated the intelligence data" relating to Iraq. According to Fund, the commission concluded that "it didn't happen." In fact, the Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction -- co-chaired by Robb and Republican attorney and former judge Laurence Silberman -- did not investigate whether the Bush administration misled the public about intelligence. Nor, for that matter, has any other governmental entity to date. Rather, the Robb-Silberman Commission concluded that "[t]he Intelligence Community did not make or change any analytic judgments in response to political pressure" in the buildup to the Iraq war, a conclusion that has been disputed by some senior intelligence officials.
***
Indeed, Bush's February 6, 2004, executive order establishing the commission limited the scope of its investigation to the production of intelligence:
[T]he Commission shall specifically examine the Intelligence Community's intelligence prior to the initiation of Operation Iraqi Freedom and compare it with the findings of the Iraq Survey Group and other relevant agencies or organizations concerning the capabilities, intentions, and activities of Iraq relating to the design, development, manufacture, acquisition, possession, proliferation, transfer, testing, potential or threatened use, or use of Weapons of Mass Destruction and related means of delivery.
The SIC Report -
Similarly, the first phase of the Senate Intelligence Committee's 2004 Report on the U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assessments on Iraq determined that intelligence assessments were not tainted by political "pressure." But the committee postponed until after the 2004 presidential election analysis of whether the Bush administration misused that intelligence, pledging to include it in the second -- as yet uncompleted -- phase of the report.

[E]even the conclusion of these two reports that analysts received no "pressure" in gathering intelligence has been disputed by some senior intelligence officials, including W. Patrick Lang, the former chief of the Middle East office of the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), and Richard Kerr, a onetime acting CIA director who led an internal investigation of the CIA's failure to correctly assess Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capabilities.
- Click here for the full article which bristles with links to its claims, as well as for other articles on the Reports (of course you can look at the Reports themselves, they're online too) --> Media Matters - Fund falsely claimed Robb-Silberman found president had not "misled" on intelligence
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:01 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,667 posts, read 74,628,627 times
Reputation: 48173
when DOD gets its foot off of our neck, that will take a great big fight, #1 priority dismantling blackwater. numero uno threat to national security, far greater than 911. blackwater, the guys most likely to come to the door and take your NRA guns away from you.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:02 PM
 
34,990 posts, read 34,750,515 times
Reputation: 6163
Quote:
Originally Posted by arizona sunset View Post
The only problem with "the Bush Administration [cooking] the books" is that every sinlge investigation (and gosh knows there has been a ton) hasn't proven anything to substantiate your claim. NOT A SINGLE ONE!!! Explain that please?

But I guess baseless acusations have become the theme for every "Bush Basher" person out there. Sorry, but smart people use facts to back up their posts. Not biased Michael Moore quotes.

P.S. It isn't name calling when I say liberals are spineless or a complete joke. My mother did teach me to never lie, and this is just calling it as I see it. Sorry if that is offensive....
...Michael Moore...?

Im sure your mother also taught you the difference between fact and opinion. That didnt seem to take too well.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:06 PM
 
Location: The Planet Mars
2,150 posts, read 2,309,490 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Then why did (in 2004) the Senate Intelligence Committee unanimously approve a report acknowledging that it "did not find any evidence that administration officials attempted to coerce, influence or pressure analysts to change their judgments?

The following year, why did the bipartisan Robb-Silberman report similarly find "no indication that the intelligence community distort the evidence regarding WMD in Iraq?"

Either Bush AND the entire international intelligence community AND the Senate and House intelligence committee "lied" or none of them did.
It can't be both ways.
Since you like to quote the Senate Intelligence Committee - maybe you'll find their June 2008 report to be equally credible... Senator Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)

It clearly states that Bush misled the country into an unnecessary war!!!

Can't have it both ways - as you said!!! Let's see you LIE your way out of this one!!
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Phoenix metro (Scottsdale), AZ
147 posts, read 338,980 times
Reputation: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
...Michael Moore...?

Im sure your mother also taught you the difference between fact and opinion. That didnt seem to take too well.
No I actaully get it quite well. Conservatives use concrete facts in debates, and liberals spew out the first fabrication of the truth that comes into their heads. The Palin/Biden debate comes to mind very quickly.....I wonder why?
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:15 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,667 posts, read 74,628,627 times
Reputation: 48173
Quote:
Originally Posted by arizona sunset View Post
No I actaully get it quite well. Conservatives use concrete facts in debates, and liberals spew out the first fabrication of the truth that comes into their heads. The Palin/Biden debate comes to mind very quickly.....I wonder why?
absolutely that is why GOP lost 1 to 3.
GOP refused to discuss irrelevant issues like 12 trillion debt in just 8 years and a fabricated war. nonesense like that they just dont waste time on, mostly focus on the flag motherhood the sacred status of family the american way and the irrelevance of solvency or personal conduct. oh i almost forget i can see russia from my bedroom window. just the facts maem just the facts.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,383 posts, read 27,581,078 times
Reputation: 6540
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbob View Post
Since you like to quote the Senate Intelligence Committee - maybe you'll find their June 2008 report to be equally credible... Senator Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)

It clearly states that Bush misled the country into an unnecessary war!!!

Can't have it both ways - as you said!!! Let's see you LIE your way out of this one!!
You mean Rockefeller's highly partisan "report?"
Which did not substaniate the most explosive claims?

Rockefeller charged that "top administration officials made repeated statements that falsely linked Iraq and al Qaeda as a single threat and insinuated that Iraq played a role in 9/11." Yet what did the report actually find? That Iraq-al Qaeda links were substantiated by intelligence information.
The same goes for claims about Saddam's possession of biological and chemical weapons, as well as his alleged operation of a nuclear weapons program.

Many people don't realize that a lie is an act of deliberate, not unwitting, deception. If anyone "misled" us into war, blame the CIA.

In 2003, top Senate Democrats, not just Rockefeller, but also Carl Levin, Clinton, Kerry and others, sounded just as alarmist.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:25 PM
 
Location: The Planet Mars
2,150 posts, read 2,309,490 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
You mean Rockefeller's highly partisan "report?"
Which did not substaniate the most explosive claims?

Rockefeller charged that "top administration officials made repeated statements that falsely linked Iraq and al Qaeda as a single threat and insinuated that Iraq played a role in 9/11." Yet what did the report actually find? That Iraq-al Qaeda links were substantiated by intelligence information.
The same goes for claims about Saddam's possession of biological and chemical weapons, as well as his alleged operation of a nuclear weapons program.

Many people don't realize that a lie is an act of deliberate, not unwitting, deception. If anyone "misled" us into war, blame the CIA.

In 2003, top Senate Democrats, not just Rockefeller, but also Carl Levin, Clinton, Kerry and others, sounded just as alarmist.
Oh - now I understand.....

You only support the Senate Intelligence Committee when they AGREE with you... oh - now I completely understand...

Mod cut-reference to user

Last edited by Reads2MUCH; 12-20-2008 at 07:59 PM.. Reason: personal attack
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,383 posts, read 27,581,078 times
Reputation: 6540
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Robb-Silberman -
On the November 14 edition of CNN's Paula Zahn Now, Wall Street Journal columnist John Fund falsely claimed that former "Democratic Senator Chuck Robb [VA] headed a commission which looked into whether or not the president misled and manipulated the intelligence data" relating to Iraq. According to Fund, the commission concluded that "it didn't happen." In fact, the Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction -- co-chaired by Robb and Republican attorney and former judge Laurence Silberman -- did not investigate whether the Bush administration misled the public about intelligence. Nor, for that matter, has any other governmental entity to date. Rather, the Robb-Silberman Commission concluded that "[t]he Intelligence Community did not make or change any analytic judgments in response to political pressure" in the buildup to the Iraq war, a conclusion that has been disputed by some senior intelligence officials.
***
Indeed, Bush's February 6, 2004, executive order establishing the commission limited the scope of its investigation to the production of intelligence:
[T]he Commission shall specifically examine the Intelligence Community's intelligence prior to the initiation of Operation Iraqi Freedom and compare it with the findings of the Iraq Survey Group and other relevant agencies or organizations concerning the capabilities, intentions, and activities of Iraq relating to the design, development, manufacture, acquisition, possession, proliferation, transfer, testing, potential or threatened use, or use of Weapons of Mass Destruction and related means of delivery.
The SIC Report -
Similarly, the first phase of the Senate Intelligence Committee's 2004 Report on the U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assessments on Iraq determined that intelligence assessments were not tainted by political "pressure." But the committee postponed until after the 2004 presidential election analysis of whether the Bush administration misused that intelligence, pledging to include it in the second -- as yet uncompleted -- phase of the report.

[E]even the conclusion of these two reports that analysts received no "pressure" in gathering intelligence has been disputed by some senior intelligence officials, including W. Patrick Lang, the former chief of the Middle East office of the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), and Richard Kerr, a onetime acting CIA director who led an internal investigation of the CIA's failure to correctly assess Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capabilities.
- Click here for the full article which bristles with links to its claims, as well as for other articles on the Reports (of course you can look at the Reports themselves, they're online too) --> Media Matters - Fund falsely claimed Robb-Silberman found president had not "misled" on intelligence
Stop using "media matters" as a credible "source!"

So do you think that (along with Bush) the entire international intelligence community and the Senate and House "lied?"
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