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Old 12-21-2008, 03:51 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,237 posts, read 8,446,022 times
Reputation: 3101

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Quote:
BTW, you are also wrong when you say that it is only older people. You need to not generalize so much.
Well, I didn't mean to say that only older people are like that, but when I hear older people act like that, it is unfortunate
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Old 12-21-2008, 04:17 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,194 posts, read 16,564,163 times
Reputation: 8847
Quote:
Originally Posted by HubbleRules View Post
I don't see the extremists on either side reforming themselves - they have become too partisan for that...

I DO think that someone will need to unite them... Someone like Obama...

He can reach across to both sides and get us to work for a common good.

The problem with the past 30 years or so of politics is that political leaders learned it was beneficial to them (in the short term) to divide us against one another - and it worked like a charm - up until 2006...

Now people realize that this partisan bickering amongst ourselves really has to stop if we are to resolve the problems this nation faces...

I am confident that Obama is the man for that challenge.. I think his message of shared-sacrifice, and working for the betterment of all is the only way we are going to come together.
This is absolutely ridiculous. There is a reason for "partisanship", and it isn't a bad thing. It's good.

Thre reason there is such a divide (if you haven't figured it out, and apparently you haven't) is that there is a vast difference in ideology.

We (as Conservatives) do not want what they (the liberals; i.e. Democrats) are selling!

This business of "crossing the isle" has got to stop. It is precisely why McCain lost the election.

Someone said recently that now that the election is over, McCain should "cross the isle ... and sit down!"

For fear of having another post deleted, and another "warning", I cannot comment further, as it would surely be seen as "straying off topic". But I have a lot more I could say on this. I will refrain, however.
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:17 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,884 posts, read 4,335,909 times
Reputation: 1606
ScranBarre,
I am sitting right now in front of my Christmas tree. Underneath it are all our gifts, from my wife to me and from me to her. I know that my gifts to her are more expensive then hers to me, but that hers represent a more significant percentage of her income (she makes about half then me) and are far more thoughtfull then mine (I'm a guy, after all). I love her more than I love my own existance, and I know she loves me even more. But she SO Truly LOVES ME, dorkey old me, how can I believe it? but she does, day to day.... If you are lucky enough to find a love like this, then no one should ever be able to take it away from you. Certainly not the Goverment. I don't care whether it comes from a male or female, it is love that legetimizes a relationship. Be free.

Nobody should regulate Love.

Last edited by GWhopper; 12-22-2008 at 01:56 AM..
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:38 AM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,854 posts, read 20,111,045 times
Reputation: 35897
Quote:
Originally Posted by chauncy View Post
My cynical thought is that there is too much of a market for the the conservative hate/anger machines for them to tone it down. Those guys make a lot of money. And people eat it up.

Air america on the other hand, couldn't make money. I thought I wanted a liberal counterpart to Rush/Hannity etc. But it just got my BP up and put me in a bad mood. and I new instinctively that things are just not that black and white. And generally it isn't good for our country to pit one half against the other half so hatefully.

It would mean people would stop listening to Rush/hannity etc. Now if there were more thoughtful conservatives like Buckley out there, that would be good. Civil disagreements on certain matters....
It's funny you are only addressing the extremes on the right but fail to address those who promote hatred on the liberal side. If we are to be a unified nation, then we need to work on working peacefully with one another and quit accusing the other side of promoting hate.
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:57 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,088 posts, read 4,666,954 times
Reputation: 1609
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScranBarre View Post
As a social liberal and fiscal conservative I chose to register Democrat and voted for John Kerry on my eighteenth birthday back in 2004. I just voted for President-Elect Obama last month. I'm pro-life, pro-2nd amendment, anti-death penalty, and pro-civil equality (which "gay rights" really IS). As an aspiring CPA I'm staunchly opposed to rewarding fiscal irresponsibility with tax payer dollars with all of these recent corporate bailouts. I had been against the invasion of Iraq since the very beginning and have been an ardent critic of the Bush Administration ever since. I'm big on "green living" and plan to purchase a hybrid as soon as my finances permit. I'm a WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) from an upper-middle-class suburban family near Scranton, PA, former home of Vice-President-Elect Biden and Secretary of State-designate Clinton.

Nevertheless while I hold such strict viewpoints myself I am always open to persuasion from others. I ENJOY reading or hearing divergent perspectives on political issues, and every once in a while someone articulate comes along to make me abandon former beliefs I had held in favor of jumping on a new bandwagon as I see errors in my ways. My best childhood friend also turned eighteen on Election Day 2004 and was the first in his town to vote to re-elect President Bush, much as how I was the first in my town to vote for Kerry. My friends now are mostly Democrats, but I attend a conservative Roman Catholic college and have befriended a large number of Republicans as well. They respect my views. I respect theirs. My question is if my fellow 18-24-year-olds can disagree with civility, then why do people twice our age foam at the mouth, twitch their eyes, hurl expletives, and otherwise act like such uncivilized beasts when someone from an opposing political party approaches them?

This forum is a prime example. The lengthy thread about President-Elect Obama's choice for a pastor to speak at his inauguration has incensed many Democrats. Why? As an openly-gay male myself I have NO QUALMS with his choice. We ARE a nation where most people are rather moderate and/or centrist, and I think Obama realizes that in order to move our nation forward and repair the damage done by the Bush Administration he will have to first try to bring us together after years of strict polarization. If putting aside my selfish desire to be viewed as an equal citizen in our nation is what it would take to help bring the GOP and the Dems. together, then so be it.

Any suggestions on how the right-wing and the left-wing can STOP spewing such vitriol at one another?
I have a short answer to you question, and one that I most fervently hope is true. What will it take to bridge the gap? Barack Obama! It is true that the most extreme on both sides will continue to "fight it out", but I am predicting that the kind of animosity we have seen for the past 12 years will start evaporating soon, and in another 8 years, will seem like a distant nightmare.
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Old 12-22-2008, 07:48 AM
 
1,647 posts, read 2,315,523 times
Reputation: 479
When the right gets rid of the religious nutjobs and warmongers.
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Old 12-22-2008, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Missouri
3,640 posts, read 4,397,615 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by person View Post
When the right gets rid of the religious nutjobs and warmongers.
Yes, because we all know that only the rightwing nutjobs are the only crazy people in this nation. Get your head out of you know where. Plenty people from all sides are crazy and say and do outrageous things. Why in the hell would anyone think that hate only comes from one side of any aisle?
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Old 12-22-2008, 09:10 AM
LML
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,109 posts, read 8,099,343 times
Reputation: 5160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScranBarre View Post
As a social liberal and fiscal conservative I chose to register Democrat and voted for John Kerry on my eighteenth birthday back in 2004. I just voted for President-Elect Obama last month. I'm pro-life, pro-2nd amendment, anti-death penalty, and pro-civil equality (which "gay rights" really IS). As an aspiring CPA I'm staunchly opposed to rewarding fiscal irresponsibility with tax payer dollars with all of these recent corporate bailouts. I had been against the invasion of Iraq since the very beginning and have been an ardent critic of the Bush Administration ever since. I'm big on "green living" and plan to purchase a hybrid as soon as my finances permit. I'm a WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) from an upper-middle-class suburban family near Scranton, PA, former home of Vice-President-Elect Biden and Secretary of State-designate Clinton.

Your views are so much the same as mine that I feel as though you are a young version of me. So I feel that I should tell you that you are in for a lot of frustration in your life because you want to use logic and reason rather than just slapping a label on everyone and thinking you have it all figured out. You will find people on the extremes of both sides who will immediately slap a label on YOU because you disagree with them on one point or the other and so they quit listening and don't hear the 90 points with which you do agree.

Which leads me to the point I wanted to make. There will always be the haters on both sides who are so positively sure that they are 100% right on 100% of all issues and view anyone with another point of view as "the enemy." Those we can do nothing about. But if the reasonable rest of us would just take the time to stop, listen, think, and NOT label it would go a long way toward making it possible for us to once again work together for the common good and become a much more civil society. People really are too complicated to be so easily labeled. And if everyone would be honest with themselves, I bet they would have to admit that there are things part of the "doctrine" of our own political group with which we don't agree. Just stop being so quick to label people and you might learn a lot.
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Old 12-22-2008, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
18,054 posts, read 10,081,947 times
Reputation: 6976
Quote:
Originally Posted by LML View Post
Your views are so much the same as mine that I feel as though you are a young version of me. So I feel that I should tell you that you are in for a lot of frustration in your life because you want to use logic and reason rather than just slapping a label on everyone and thinking you have it all figured out. You will find people on the extremes of both sides who will immediately slap a label on YOU because you disagree with them on one point or the other and so they quit listening and don't hear the 90 points with which you do agree.

Which leads me to the point I wanted to make. There will always be the haters on both sides who are so positively sure that they are 100% right on 100% of all issues and view anyone with another point of view as "the enemy." Those we can do nothing about. But if the reasonable rest of us would just take the time to stop, listen, think, and NOT label it would go a long way toward making it possible for us to once again work together for the common good and become a much more civil society. People really are too complicated to be so easily labeled. And if everyone would be honest with themselves, I bet they would have to admit that there are things part of the "doctrine" of our own political group with which we don't agree. Just stop being so quick to label people and you might learn a lot.

Excellent points, and I agree with both of you.

People from both sides who think little and speak much want others presorted into pigeonholes so that they know immediately who to oppose without having to waste time.

It has always been easier to kill something than to try to understand it.

This is why we have wars instead of resolving our differences diplomatically and achieving a compromise where neither side gets everything but nobody gets left out. There has never been a war in history whose outcome has provided a permanent solution to anything. You cannot kill an idea with armament.

Mankind has not moved very far from it's roots in 15,000 years of civilization, and we have not become smart enough to know that it takes more strength to confront an enemy with words than with weapons. It is still easier to throw rocks than talk.
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Old 12-22-2008, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
425 posts, read 599,518 times
Reputation: 144
I think we need to split...
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