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Old 02-27-2009, 09:41 PM
 
8,758 posts, read 8,850,756 times
Reputation: 1429

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccersupporter View Post
Obama does indeed risk going too far and having a whacko do something stupid, and I don't mean throw a shoe. If his porkulous plan backfires, if he allows/encourages government to intrude too far into people's pocketbook many will get frustrated and who knows what may happen.

I frankly think he is going to face a backlash that will make what voters did to the Republicans look insignificant comparatively. I think he may very well lead us into a depression that will take possible a decade+ to recover from. Some of the things he is looking at make what Bush did in infringing on our rights look like child's play. Pretty scary stuff.

Sadly, I agree.
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:52 PM
 
Location: San Salvador, El Salvador
567 posts, read 1,343,946 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXTwizter View Post
Now I don't care for Obamas policies one bit, but for someone to do this is just downright disgusting.

Chicago Man Arrested for Allegedly Targeting Obama With HIV-Infected Blood - First 100 Days of Presidency - Politics FOXNews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/27/chicago-man-arrested-allegedly-targeting-obama-hiv-infected-blood/ - broken link)
After he's found guilty, please take him out back and kill him.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:24 PM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,861 posts, read 6,068,741 times
Reputation: 1019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccersupporter View Post
Obama does indeed risk going too far and having a whacko do something stupid, and I don't mean throw a shoe. If his porkulous plan backfires, if he allows/encourages government to intrude too far into people's pocketbook many will get frustrated and who knows what may happen.

I frankly think he is going to face a backlash that will make what voters did to the Republicans look insignificant comparatively. I think he may very well lead us into a depression that will take possible a decade+ to recover from. Some of the things he is looking at make what Bush did in infringing on our rights look like child's play. Pretty scary stuff.
It sounds more like he has to worry about the backlash when things get better. It seems like republicans have a hard time coping with the rejection of their failed policies and are attacking relentlessly. The funny thing is they show that their info pool is so small everytime they use porkulus or anything similar. Its a wonder why the republicans in congress have such a low approval raiting, much lower han the dems.
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Old 02-28-2009, 03:53 AM
 
Location: Irvine, CA to Keller, TX
4,831 posts, read 6,184,839 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamexican View Post
It sounds more like he has to worry about the backlash when things get better. It seems like republicans have a hard time coping with the rejection of their failed policies and are attacking relentlessly. The funny thing is they show that their info pool is so small everytime they use porkulus or anything similar. Its a wonder why the republicans in congress have such a low approval raiting, much lower han the dems.
If things get better and stay that way for, say 4 years, I will be glad to give him credit.

If things don't, he will fry and we, our children, and their children will pay a severe price for decades. There is no plan "B", there is no way out once he racks up trillions and trillions of dollars of debt. He could very well straddle Presidents and this country with debt for as far as the eye can see and the mind can imagine.

Who knows maybe he will make it so bad that he will be able to eliminate anyone from every wanting to be President again. Then he can be emperor Obama. Yep, that's a plan.
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:29 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,608 posts, read 9,822,288 times
Reputation: 9236
I asked once while the transition was still in progress for some concrete suggestions as to how to fix the problems America faces. To claim there are no problems would simply to be beyond ridiculous. However, repeatedly claiming Obama is doing terrible things to the economy and bringing America to ruin without any example counterproposals is just as ridiculous. I won't go as far as to say the right doesn't have any better ideas than the ones in play, I simply will ask again: what better ideas do you have for the economy than the ones in play? It's clear to me that long ago the answer to this mess was to mail each American a debit card with a $10,000 credit line. Or each American household $20K. The total cost to the Treasury would have been 1/2 of the cost of the first official bailout. The total cost of the two official bailouts and the unofficial Federal Reserve bailouts has been in the multi-trillions of dollars and still there is no forward motion in the economy because the uber rich have an infinite capacity to absorb money. The stimulus will only give business the needed capital to accelerate their removal of manufacturing and high tech from the American economy and relocate them in foreign countries where labor is available for less cost. Giving tax incentives for not outsourcing is a joke because the cost savings gained by doing just that are greater than any tax break is likely to be. Carrots don't work. This whole thing could have been done without a single dollar spent by drafting draconian legislature outlining the penalties for not using American labor if one's corporate offices are in America and one's business is traded on America's stock market. So, no, I don't agree with the Stimulus because it puts the money in the wrong hands but I don't and wouldn't expect that any of the GOP contenders faced with an economy in the shape ours is in would have done any different. Saving American business is at the core of all administrations. What has you right wing chest beaters upset is that Obama is attempting to simultaneously look out for the environment, trim defense, prop up public health and examine the education system. Republicans would concentrate on business and the military and everything else could go hang.

H
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:40 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,785,946 times
Reputation: 11318
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTYankee69 View Post
Perhaps one of the ones they let out of Gitmo
You prefer people rotting in jail for no crime that can be proven?
What happens when it happens to your family member or friend?
Will you still feel the same?
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Old 02-28-2009, 06:16 AM
 
34,990 posts, read 34,703,963 times
Reputation: 6163
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTYankee69 View Post
Perhaps one of the ones they let out of Gitmo
One of the ones the Bush crew let out?

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Old 02-28-2009, 07:13 AM
 
11,145 posts, read 13,892,788 times
Reputation: 4209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
I asked once while the transition was still in progress for some concrete suggestions as to how to fix the problems America faces. To claim there are no problems would simply to be beyond ridiculous. However, repeatedly claiming Obama is doing terrible things to the economy and bringing America to ruin without any example counterproposals is just as ridiculous. I won't go as far as to say the right doesn't have any better ideas than the ones in play, I simply will ask again: what better ideas do you have for the economy than the ones in play? It's clear to me that long ago the answer to this mess was to mail each American a debit card with a $10,000 credit line. Or each American household $20K. The total cost to the Treasury would have been 1/2 of the cost of the first official bailout. The total cost of the two official bailouts and the unofficial Federal Reserve bailouts has been in the multi-trillions of dollars and still there is no forward motion in the economy because the uber rich have an infinite capacity to absorb money. The stimulus will only give business the needed capital to accelerate their removal of manufacturing and high tech from the American economy and relocate them in foreign countries where labor is available for less cost. Giving tax incentives for not outsourcing is a joke because the cost savings gained by doing just that are greater than any tax break is likely to be. Carrots don't work. This whole thing could have been done without a single dollar spent by drafting draconian legislature outlining the penalties for not using American labor if one's corporate offices are in America and one's business is traded on America's stock market. So, no, I don't agree with the Stimulus because it puts the money in the wrong hands but I don't and wouldn't expect that any of the GOP contenders faced with an economy in the shape ours is in would have done any different. Saving American business is at the core of all administrations. What has you right wing chest beaters upset is that Obama is attempting to simultaneously look out for the environment, trim defense, prop up public health and examine the education system. Republicans would concentrate on business and the military and everything else could go hang.

H
I've considered that idea too. An economist told me it would tank the value of the dollar, though.

It also seems it would take more than $10,000. That would mostly just go to paying off existing debt and little of it would go into the economy. I'd say it would take $25,000 or more per person to begin seeing impact.

Still, it makes sense to me - at least conceptually - considering the trillions McCain, Bush, and Obama have supported investing in the economy.

All thees chicken littles fearful that we're becoming Venezuela don't really know the history of the U.S. and how government has always stepped in and then stepped out when needed. None of these investments - be they in infrastructure jobs or in shares of banks - are designed to be permanent. If Bush were still in charge, I can assure you we would have had his second 800 billion dollar stimulus package soon enough.

They're just shoring up the economy until the markets turn around. It's fine to disagree ideologically, but they're not nationalizing businesses to permanently own them, just to protect them while they recover from their own mistakes.

So, relax. It's really not that bad, conservatives. It's just a different philosophy than you would pursue. Tension between ideas has always been the hallmark of America. Celebrate the fact that people disagree with you and we are dynamic enough to try different ideas.
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:38 AM
 
8,758 posts, read 8,850,756 times
Reputation: 1429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
I asked once while the transition was still in progress for some concrete suggestions as to how to fix the problems America faces. To claim there are no problems would simply to be beyond ridiculous. However, repeatedly claiming Obama is doing terrible things to the economy and bringing America to ruin without any example counterproposals is just as ridiculous. I won't go as far as to say the right doesn't have any better ideas than the ones in play, I simply will ask again: what better ideas do you have for the economy than the ones in play? It's clear to me that long ago the answer to this mess was to mail each American a debit card with a $10,000 credit line. Or each American household $20K. The total cost to the Treasury would have been 1/2 of the cost of the first official bailout. The total cost of the two official bailouts and the unofficial Federal Reserve bailouts has been in the multi-trillions of dollars and still there is no forward motion in the economy because the uber rich have an infinite capacity to absorb money. The stimulus will only give business the needed capital to accelerate their removal of manufacturing and high tech from the American economy and relocate them in foreign countries where labor is available for less cost. Giving tax incentives for not outsourcing is a joke because the cost savings gained by doing just that are greater than any tax break is likely to be. Carrots don't work. This whole thing could have been done without a single dollar spent by drafting draconian legislature outlining the penalties for not using American labor if one's corporate offices are in America and one's business is traded on America's stock market. So, no, I don't agree with the Stimulus because it puts the money in the wrong hands but I don't and wouldn't expect that any of the GOP contenders faced with an economy in the shape ours is in would have done any different. Saving American business is at the core of all administrations. What has you right wing chest beaters upset is that Obama is attempting to simultaneously look out for the environment, trim defense, prop up public health and examine the education system. Republicans would concentrate on business and the military and everything else could go hang.

H

The problem with all of that is that the government throwing money at a problem has never really helped said problem. Usually, it just wastes millions and billions of dollars and we still have the same problems. Nothing was exactly cut from the budget during the Bush administration. More was spent on education than during that eight years than in any administration before. So this idea that Republicans only spend on military and business is just silly. However, in these times, military spending is certainly not a waste either. The sort of proposed spending this president has set for is obscene and totally unnecessary...not all of it, but a whole lot of it. All of those earmarks gone unchecked will invite corruption that has been unprecedented in our history.
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:17 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 60,532,892 times
Reputation: 22277
Stop being so unkind to this poor man who sent the HIV blood to Obama. He's an HIV victim, he's a democrat, he's a black African - a refugee brought here to live off taxpayer-provided handouts and free health care, he wants more. The guy is a liberal.

I think he was just trying to thank Obama. Or he did this in support of Obama's promise to provide him even more government handouts.
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