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Old 03-14-2009, 06:58 PM
 
Location: T or C New Mexico
2,588 posts, read 1,869,605 times
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Quote:
fact that other countries warned us not to do this
name a few
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Old 03-14-2009, 07:50 PM
 
Location: South Florida
956 posts, read 1,105,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highdesertmutz View Post
.............the President is working on the problem. .....................Obama is trying to do. don't get onto a forum and spout more lies. find the truth for yourselves. Welcome to the White House
I know what the topic is about, please. nowhere in the OP does it say anything about stimulus, it is about the budget earmarks, ................
He's working on the problem? Good to hear. I am comforted.

The "truth" according to The White House web site? That is Obama's truth ... not necessarily THE truth.

Earmarks are earmarks ... whether they are in the stimulus or the budget. It's money going out that WE DON'T HAVE! It's money going out that will eventually come from every single solitary one of us.

If you honestly believe that alll these trillions of dollars are really going to come from someone a whole lot richer than you are, I have a couple of bridges I'd love to sell you because I really could use the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by proudmama View Post
.......... McCain was the ONLY one that specifically said that he will "end earmarks". ............
And we'll never know whether McCain would have ended them or not, will we? So that's water under the bridge.

I don't care anymore about Bush. He's not President. I wasn't any happier with the spending or the earmarks then, believe me. I don't care about McCain. He's not President.

Can we just stay on the subject of the one leader we now have? That's who we're talking about .... Barack Obama, the man with all the hope and all the promise and all the "change". Does this really not bother any of you??? Are you really this loyal to what you thought and hoped would be and just isn't? Come on!!!

So here we have Obama in his own words .... PROMISES BROKEN at every turn. Show me where he has lived up to what he says in this video (and this is just one short blip of so many other endless promises). Right off the top, which bill so far that he has signed has been there for us to look at for 5 days!!! Which one? Show me one!!!


YouTube - Barack Obama "Public Will Have 5 Days To Look At Every Bill That Lands On My Desk"
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Old 03-14-2009, 08:26 PM
 
21,044 posts, read 19,508,048 times
Reputation: 5930
Quote:
Originally Posted by McMolly View Post
He's working on the problem? Good to hear. I am comforted.

The "truth" according to The White House web site? That is Obama's truth ... not necessarily THE truth.

Earmarks are earmarks ... whether they are in the stimulus or the budget. It's money going out that WE DON'T HAVE! """"""""""



WHERE WILL THE MONEY COME FROM TO PAY FOR BUSH'S WAR????????????????




"""""It's money going out that will eventually come from every single solitary one of us.""""

Yup, it's called paying for what you get !!!!!




""""If you honestly believe that alll these trillions of dollars are really going to come from someone a whole lot richer than you are, I have a couple of bridges I'd love to sell you because I really could use the money.



And we'll never know whether McCain would have ended them or not, will we? So that's water under the bridge.

I don't care anymore about Bush. He's not President. I wasn't any happier with the spending or the earmarks then, believe me. I don't care about McCain. He's not President.

Can we just stay on the subject of the one leader we now have? That's who we're talking about .... Barack Obama, the man with all the hope and all the promise and all the "change". Does this really not bother any of you??? Are you really this loyal to what you thought and hoped would be and just isn't? Come on!!!

So here we have Obama in his own words .... PROMISES BROKEN at every turn. Show me where he has lived up to what he says in this video (and this is just one short blip of so many other endless promises). Right off the top, which bill so far that he has signed has been there for us to look at for 5 days!!! Which one? Show me one!!!


YouTube - Barack Obama "Public Will Have 5 Days To Look At Every Bill That Lands On My Desk"
Got proven wrong about Obama saying he would end earmarks which he never said so squeaks out the crack with this bs.... Bet you haven't even tried to find the website...rather whine and moan....


HA! And YOU might not care about bush any longer but this economic mess did start on his watch...HE USED EARMARKS!!!!!!

HE made YOU pay for the huge tax breaks he gave his base...the "haves and have mores" and you ain't it.
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Old 03-14-2009, 08:28 PM
 
21,044 posts, read 19,508,048 times
Reputation: 5930
Quote:
Originally Posted by McMolly
For all those going back in time and bashing Bush (just one more time), Bush is not the issue here. We can criticize Bush all we want, but the barn door shut on that. Obama promised "change" in government and so far we're not getting that.



Unfortunately I have no ability to accept or reject money coming into Florida. If I did, I would reject it absolutely. We're forced to cut expenses personally and I would do the same for the state until the country gets back on its feet. But it's not my call.



I know I wrote both my senators and got the standard form letter basically saying they're going to do what they're going to do and I don't understand.

People keep voting the same people back in because the majority really don't think it through. They vote for the faces they recognize. That's why I'm for term limits.



The Democrat controlled Congress made the decision last fall to put off a vote on the 2009 budget until after the election in order to get additional spending on social programs. Their feeling at the time was that Bush would make good his threat to veto any budget that would exceed his spending limits.

So the 2009 budget that is before Congress now is not "Bush's budget" though we are told time and time again that it is.

As far as this outrageous spending bill, it doesn't matter who put the earmarks in. Republicans put in 40% of them, Democrats 60%.

They can't just be picked over;


they would instead have to be removed entirely as Obama promised




and as he has the power to do!

He could have made an amazing statement by vetoing this and telling Congress to come back with a plan with no earmarks whatsoever. Take charge, be the leader you promised to be.

Yesterday, before signing what he called an "imperfect" bill and retreating behind closed doors to do it, Obama reminded me of parents who threaten their children .... "you do this one more time and you're grounded for a week". But the underlying message remains that they got away with it this time and the likelihood is they'll get away with it the next time.

The jury is out and time will tell. But so far, it's very disappointing to see business as usual in Washington when we were promised so much more.


See bolded above. He never promised that and NO one has ever shown he did.....I posted what he really did say.

What you don't understand is the extreme problems in our country and the need to fix them quickly....to veto that bill and start over means hardships for many , many people....just not you, you're fine , so like a true repub you think nothing should be done for anyone else.....glad Obama doesn't belive that.

Repubs didn't care when bush spent their children's taxes on a war ..and HID the cost.

Repubs didn't mind when the Wealthy Welfare Queens of Wall St. got money....and now, as always , wail and moan because NOW average Americans who need the most help will be helped....why do Republicans HATE the middle class and the poor so much and Worship War and the Wealthy???
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:06 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,311,871 times
Reputation: 4002
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
you are totally missing the big picture since both items are being discussed on this forum.
Well, I normally wouln't bother here, but however many topics have come to be discussed on this forum, that's how many the right-wing continues to make irrational, uninformed, and incorrect statements about. That's the big picture, and it's a troubling one for the future well-being of this country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
congress has just passed one of the largest borrow-and-spend bills in our history.
Out of necessity brought about by an economy that Republicans allowed to collapse. Meanwhile, in contrast to the borrow-and-blow-stuff-up Iraq War, the money in the stimulus package will be spent on you. You will get the tax cuts, you will drive on the repaired roads and bridges, you will use the electricity that comes through an updated grid, you will benefit from the advances in energy and medical efficiency. And your local economy will have more people with jobs and therefore money to spend because of the stimulus bill. The Republican stimulus plan would also have been one of the largest borrow-and-spend bills in our history. It would have given a lot of money to rich people and corporations so that they could hire more people and invest in more things. Of course, they already have plenty of money and they aren't hiring anyone or investing in anything. You want a stupid plan? There was a stupid plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
if this were not enough, H.R. 1105 is growing the size of government by another 8 percent, so with the so-called stimulus bill this makes fiscal year 2009 almost 80 percent more expensive to the American taxpayer than last year.
No, dear. Spending does not impact on the taxpayer. Taxes do. And unless you make more than $250K per year, you won't be paying higher taxes on account of either the stimulus bill or the omnibus spending bill, most of the increases in which are to fill in holes created by stab-the-average -American-in-the-back spending cuts that were made by the Bush administration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
americans have a right to be disgusted by this waste! this is not just a republican complaint. a lot of americans are getting disgusted with the way that our country seems to be going.
Oh, we all have a right to be disgusted with the way the country seems to be going alright. These past eight years put us on a road to disaster in one area after another. We are currently hobbled by the effects of just one of those. We have a great deal of work to do in repairing the damage that has been done, but right-wingers don't seem willing to join in that work. Most seem to prefer to stand idly by and whine. We all have a right to be disgusted with that as well. And we are...
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:15 AM
 
Location: T or C New Mexico
2,588 posts, read 1,869,605 times
Reputation: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by McMolly View Post
He's working on the problem? Good to hear. I am comforted.

The "truth" according to The White House web site? That is Obama's truth ... not necessarily THE truth.

Earmarks are earmarks ... whether they are in the stimulus or the budget. It's money going out that WE DON'T HAVE! It's money going out that will eventually come from every single solitary one of us.

If you honestly believe that alll these trillions of dollars are really going to come from someone a whole lot richer than you are, I have a couple of bridges I'd love to sell you because I really could use the money.



And we'll never know whether McCain would have ended them or not, will we? So that's water under the bridge.

I don't care anymore about Bush. He's not President. I wasn't any happier with the spending or the earmarks then, believe me. I don't care about McCain. He's not President.

Can we just stay on the subject of the one leader we now have? That's who we're talking about .... Barack Obama, the man with all the hope and all the promise and all the "change". Does this really not bother any of you??? Are you really this loyal to what you thought and hoped would be and just isn't? Come on!!!

So here we have Obama in his own words .... PROMISES BROKEN at every turn. Show me where he has lived up to what he says in this video (and this is just one short blip of so many other endless promises). Right off the top, which bill so far that he has signed has been there for us to look at for 5 days!!! Which one? Show me one!!!


YouTube - Barack Obama "Public Will Have 5 Days To Look At Every Bill That Lands On My Desk"
I can point you to the information, which I have but, I can't make you read, which just goes to show everyone, you can lead a horse to water, but, you can't make him drink. I didn't realize how true this was, til just recently by reading these threads begun by neocon Obama haters.
this is what I was speaking of: http://www.city-data.com/forum/elect...ml#post7886158
but you have taken my words out of context a put your own meaning to it. don't you READ the thread at all?
I am seriously thinking that I'm arguing with people who are maroons with only 1/2 a brain cell functioning.
Speaking of LOYALTY: Polls Are Showing That The Honeymoon Is Over
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:23 AM
 
Location: T or C New Mexico
2,588 posts, read 1,869,605 times
Reputation: 607
Quote:
other countries warned us not to do this
Oh, these countries that "warned us", President Obama should believe and take advice from them too right? after all, they're not experiencing a GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS EITHER, are they. goddam you're sooooooooooooo smart. when you make shi* up, please try to make it look better than you have. you're looking more like the bull****ter's bull****er.
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:28 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,311,871 times
Reputation: 4002
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
President Obama, knew we were in debt, so why would he spend more at a time when people are going broke. He held the Senate seat and knew fully well the condition of our country.
Dude, the nation has been in debt since well before the Civil War. We will be in debt for the rest of our lifetimes, for the rest of our children's lifetimes, and for all of their children's lifetimes. In fact, we will never repay the debt. All we will ever do is service it. Get used to it. Meanwhile, the government spends in a recession because they are the only ones who can, and if nobody spends, you have no economy at all. One of the things that Obama and everyone else who has been paying any attention has noticed lately is that consumer spending has been plummeting and business spending has been plummeting. That is why such a large majority of economists from all across the philosophical spectrum has been in favor of a government stimulus package. The misguided policies of the right-wing have dumped the economy into the trash bin. You save up FOR a rainy day -- which Clinton did do and Bush didn't. But when a rainy day actually comes along, you still SPEND. Look outside. It's raining cats and dogs.
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:06 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,311,871 times
Reputation: 4002
Quote:
Originally Posted by McMolly View Post
highdesertmutz, I disagree. The topic is definitely about what was promised and what is being delivered. Obama said during the campaign that he would overhaul earmarks and he's being hypocritical when he tries to spin that he's doing that when he's not!!!
He absolutely is doing that. He obviously can have no effect on bills that were already drafted months before he came into office, and as it's the legislature that must do the actual modifications to earmark rules (a process that was already begun when the Democrats first took over Congress in January 2007), Obama does not have hands-on control of the situation, but he is driving the issue exactly as he promised that he would. You are one or both of misinformed and disingenuous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McMolly View Post
No, I misunderstand nothing. You can spin it in a hundred different directions and it still comes out the same. What we saw of Obama during the campaign is NOT what we're getting. There is agreement on that across party lines.
No there isn't...the entire meme is a right-wing invention. Obama is doing exactly what he promised, as well as trying to deal with a degree of disintegration in the American economy that hadn't become obvious until a few weeks before the election. What there is substantial agreement on is that Obama is doing a good job, and the Republicans in Congress are not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McMolly View Post
While I did not vote for Obama, I'll be honest and admit that when he was elected I was almost relieved. My support was not fully for McCain and I really had high hopes that Obama would be all that he promised .... someone new and fresh in Washington. But he's not. It's just more of the same. And I'm terribly disappointed. You should be, too. But if it makes you feel better to defend him right or wrong, you're certainly within your rights to do it.
I'll continue to support rational approaches and plans. Right now, only Democrats are offering any of those. Republicans, all but to a man or woman, are off in the weeds. Use tax cuts for the rich as a stimulus plan? That's not rational. Veto the omnibus bill over a 1% earmark content -- 40% of which were put there by Republicans and at least nearly all of which are actually good ideas? That's not rational. Republicans have not had one single rational idea to put forward since the 111th Congress convened. Not one. They have instead been a national disgrace...a continuation of the role they played over the previous eight years (and more).

Quote:
Originally Posted by McMolly View Post
Just remember that in the end it isn't about Republicans or Democrats, it's about Americans and the future of our country. We all win or fail as a result of the choices our leaders make.
Save it for Cantor, Boehner, and McConnell. Dr. No and the Do-Nothings. These are your pure partisans. These are the ones who judge everything by whether or not it might help to save what little is left of their pathetic skins in the 2010 elections. Republicans again face very bad numbers in 2010. The Democrats could reach 63-64 seats in the Senate. That's all your right-wing leaders care about today...whether or not their Party is about to go extinct. Don't fool yourself into thinking that they actually have the nation's interests at heart...they don't.
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:31 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,311,871 times
Reputation: 4002
Quote:
Originally Posted by highdesertmutz View Post
...but I will throw this out at you. both, democrats and republicans love their earmarks, it is partially how they acquire funding for projects in the states/constituant districts they represent.
Which is a part of their jobs. They are supposed to represent the interests of their districts. They are supposed to find ways to bring federal money in to address local problems. This is why they have local offices. This is why they come back to their districts and drive all over the place to hold all those local town meetings all the time. They aren't looking for input on the plusses or minuses of a particular troop drawdown proposal for Iraq, they want to know what's going on back home and how they can help get or keep important work moving forward. There are 435 districts in the country. There is no way that Congress can sit and debate the situations in every single one of them. The Congressperson from Maine does not know anything about the problems of the 3rd District in Arizona. Every Congressperson would have to educate every other Congressperson about every project he wanted money for. There were 9,000 of them in 2008. They would still not be done with them if they had all gone through hearings and markup. Earmarks are the answer. Each Congressperson gets to put a few of the small-potatoes ideas he thinks are the best of the best for his District into the pertinent appropriations bills. The total comes typically to 1-2 cents on the dollar in any given bill. Lots of good gets done at very low cost.

Problems arise with the potential for abuse of the process, a potential that folks like Jack Abramof recently capitalized upon. That's why it is the process, not the practice, that needs to be reformed. The reform that is needed is sunshine. Earmarks need to be in the open where people can see and challenge them before they slip into law. That is the process reform that Obama is trying to work toward.
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