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Old 04-03-2009, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Central Illinois -
21,360 posts, read 14,264,551 times
Reputation: 14488

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccersupporter View Post
Excuse me. In one article Obama says he has saved jobs. The other article says we have the worst unemployment in decades. Whatever.

Excuse me, he's been President for one month.

My guess is someone you voted for twice was President the past 8 years.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Yes
2,660 posts, read 6,016,014 times
Reputation: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIS123 View Post
The stimulus is a joke. It may 'save or create' some jobs as the President claims, but at what cost? Its baseline cost was $ 787 but, taking into account interest and other provisions that will then be included in the baseline of budgets moving forward, it will easily cost $1.5 Trillion. We should pay back our pre-stimulus debt before paying back the stimulus debt (this will never happen anyways), so it's going to be a long time until the money from the stimulus package is paid back (which I doubt will ever happen).
This thread is not about whether or not the stimulus is a joke. I never implied in my post whether the stimulus is a valid recovery mechanism or not.

This thread is about whether Obama is lying when he says the stimulus is saving/creating jobs. The OP said Obama must be lying because the unemploment rate is still rising. I simply showed how the OP is wrong and is using faulty logic. Hense, Obama is not lying when he says that the stimulis is doing what it was inteded to do.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Irvine, CA to Keller, TX
4,831 posts, read 6,177,928 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
Excuse me, he's been President for one month.

My guess is someone you voted for twice was President the past 8 years.
And you would have guessed wrong. I have no allegiance to either of the 2 party system. Both parties have proved themselves not worthy of a vote from me.
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Old 04-03-2009, 04:00 PM
 
Location: The Planet Mars
2,150 posts, read 2,304,116 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
Excuse me, he's been President for one month.

My guess is someone you voted for twice was President the past 8 years.
Anyone who judges any President in the first 100 days in office - is either a total complete moron - or a brain-dead party ideologue who has lost all ability for rational thought...

Good news is we can ignore morons like that - they have NO POWER!!!

They are politically impotent - and from what I see - they are going to stay that way for quite a few years - even if someone comes out with Political Viagra!!!
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:04 PM
 
Location: I currently exist only in a state of mind. one too complex for geographic location.
4,175 posts, read 5,193,276 times
Reputation: 668
I bet you judge GWB on his last year in office. how is that fair? the economy was booming for the majority of his presidency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbob View Post
Anyone who judges any President in the first 100 days in office - is either a total complete moron - or a brain-dead party ideologue who has lost all ability for rational thought...

Good news is we can ignore morons like that - they have NO POWER!!!

They are politically impotent - and from what I see - they are going to stay that way for quite a few years - even if someone comes out with Political Viagra!!!
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:27 PM
 
69,372 posts, read 55,339,374 times
Reputation: 9358
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey View Post
I know how you and Obama supporters would like to believe that fairy tale. Why do you think Obama changed from creating 3.5 million jobs to saving/creating 3.5 million jobs?
One important fact, even if Obama does create 3.5 million jobs (as if thats true), he's doing it at a cost of $1.5TRILLION dollars, meaning the cost to the taxpayer is $42K per job. This doesnt even include what the company would need to pay each employee.

What is he doing, making them all government jobs?
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:28 PM
 
69,372 posts, read 55,339,374 times
Reputation: 9358
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbob View Post
Anyone who judges any President in the first 100 days in office - is either a total complete moron - or a brain-dead party ideologue who has lost all ability for rational thought...

Good news is we can ignore morons like that - they have NO POWER!!!

They are politically impotent - and from what I see - they are going to stay that way for quite a few years - even if someone comes out with Political Viagra!!!
I dont need to wait out more than 100 days to see that Obama wants to spend $42,000 to create each job. His own budget calls for that.. How exactly do you propose this $42K per job will be paid back? What government check of yours will you be giving up?
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:51 PM
 
Location: San Diego
5,319 posts, read 7,835,215 times
Reputation: 3376
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey View Post
Do you really not understand how both can be true?
I was about to ask exactly the same thing !!!

I guess "logic" isn't really considered a strong-point of the Obama bashing crowd ?
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:32 PM
 
4,176 posts, read 5,468,034 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscottscotto View Post
This thread is not about whether or not the stimulus is a joke. I never implied in my post whether the stimulus is a valid recovery mechanism or not.

This thread is about whether Obama is lying when he says the stimulus is saving/creating jobs. The OP said Obama must be lying because the unemploment rate is still rising. I simply showed how the OP is wrong and is using faulty logic. Hense, Obama is not lying when he says that the stimulis is doing what it was inteded to do.
Is he lying when he says the plan will save OR create jobs? No.

That said, the 'OR save' part allows the Obama Admin to cook the books. How do you prove or disprove that a job was saved? You can't! If there aren't enough jobs created, they'll just inflate the number of jobs saved. This is a guy who keeps saying he inherited a $ 1.3 Trillion budget deficit when the deficit for this year on 1-20-09 (inauguration day) was projected to be
$ 570 Billion. He lies through his teeth all the time ('I'll have the most open and transparent Admin, no lobbyists in my WH, earmark reform, I'll review the budget line by line and make meaningful cuts, I'll sit down w McC and discuss public financing, no pork or earmarks in the stimulus, etc...) and, while he's not blatantly lying here, he has given himself a lot of wiggle room.
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:46 PM
 
2,659 posts, read 2,568,750 times
Reputation: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
One important fact, even if Obama does create 3.5 million jobs (as if thats true), he's doing it at a cost of $1.5TRILLION dollars, meaning the cost to the taxpayer is $42K per job. This doesnt even include what the company would need to pay each employee.

What is he doing, making them all government jobs?
Here we go again, eh Pgh?
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/100xx/doc...ts_of_ARRA.pdf

Last page of that .pdf is the estimates by the CBO (as of march 2).

2009
Low - 0.8 million jobs
High - 2.3 million jobs

2010
Low - 1.2 million jobs
High - 3.6 million jobs

2011
Low - 0.6 million jobs
High - 1.8 million jobs

Total *(includes increases estimated in 2012, 2013)
Low - 3.0 million jobs
High - 8.9 million jobs

Effect on GDP (2009-2019 includes the possible negative effect)
Low - 2.1% increase ($290 Billion*)
High - 9.5% increase ($1.31 Trillion*)

*Both estimates are low - they are based solely on the 2009 GDP

And a page up from that, you'll notice
$787,242 is the effect on the deficit.
Why do you double that value?

And keep in mind, 500 billion of that is spending - the rest is tax cuts.
You like tax cuts, right - just not spending?
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