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Old 11-25-2009, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,112 posts, read 30,534,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymd View Post
I am in that age group, and the OP's post almost fits me to a T. Except that I do support gay marriage rights and don't really see it as a threat to anything though. As other posters on this thread have pointed out, the OP sounds like an old man.

Quote:
And that's what's so sad about society today, that a young person can't possibly have any values. The post wasn't really about politics as much as personal values, which have been sharply on the decline, there's no doubt. The sense of entitlement is especially worrisome.
This is an interesting point, because I find it odd that you say 'young people' can't possibly have any values... is that because the young person's values don't mirror your own? Whose to say that your 'values' are better or worse than anyone else's?

The sense of entitlement is also interesting, because most of the young people I know don't have this 'sense of entitlement' that so many people go on and on about. They are hard working, intelligent people....but those types of young people don't get media attention. I have a feeling there are more of the 'normal' young adults than the entitled ones, you just don't hear about them as often because they don't stick out.

Quote:
This is the fault of many of today's parents, conservative and liberal alike. There's really no correlation between a parent's political views and how much they spoil their kids. Just thought I'd throw that out there before this somehow turned into a "bash democrats for the decline in American society" discussion.
Agreed.

Quote:
Also, people have become so materialistic and wrapped up in other activities that religion has taken a backseat and many people simply never learn to practice their faith and become agnostic or atheist.
Ah, this one is also interesting. I've had far more friends become fundamentalist Christians than have become Agnostic/Atheist. Most people who become Atheist/Agnostic are that way for a good reason, not because they 'put religion in the backseat'. It's because for many, religion makes no logical sense. I also found it odd that there was a pretty big correlation with the folks that converted and became more fundamental...they all had something bad happen in their lives around the conversion time. For one, his parents were divorced, another had a miscarriage, another had a 'near death experience' during surgery. Very interesting.

Quote:
Not that that's a problem, as long as they still have a set of values they live by. And many do and I respect that, but at the same time many don't. I just wish I wasn't looked at as some brain-washed radical for still being a practicing Catholic.
I don't look at most religious people and immediately think 'brain-washed radical'. The ones I have a problem with, are the ones who try to get Creationism taught in school as science, who fan the flames on the fictional 'war on christmas', the ones who come to my door at 9am on a Saturday to help me 'find Jesus' (if he was so important, why'd you lose him? ) and of course, the Westboro Baptist crazies.

That doesn't mean I dislike ALL religious people...just the wackos who try to get legislation passed to force me to think or act like they do.

And I'm a 25 year old female, if that makes a difference.
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Old 11-25-2009, 03:42 PM
 
Location: MD
97 posts, read 110,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
This is an interesting point, because I find it odd that you say 'young people' can't possibly have any values... is that because the young person's values don't mirror your own? Whose to say that your 'values' are better or worse than anyone else's?
I was being sarcastic there actually. The point I was trying to make is that it is a stereotype that young people today don't have any values. This is unfortunate because stereotypes don't appear out of nowhere. But honestly I think civility, manners, speaking proper english (or whatever language you speak, let's not get into that debate here), and using appropriate language are all values we can agree are good. At least, that is how society views them. It doesn't matter much what I or others think, because that won't change.

Quote:
The sense of entitlement is also interesting, because most of the young people I know don't have this 'sense of entitlement' that so many people go on and on about. They are hard working, intelligent people....but those types of young people don't get media attention. I have a feeling there are more of the 'normal' young adults than the entitled ones, you just don't hear about them as often because they don't stick out.
Well, possibly, but I just finished up high school not too long ago and I can tell you students were constantly whining about how their parents only got them a new $20,000 car after they totaled the first one, and complaining about how mom and dad need to get them new Abercrombie clothes 'cause everyone else was getting them, and how they deserve a better cell phone because flip phones are uncool. If you asked most of the students in my school if having a car was a necessity, nearly all of them would say yes. And most of them came from stable two-parent households where they really didn't need a car of their own. Heck, even if that wasn't the case, they can get rides with friends/friends' parents/neighbors etc. Certainly having a car makes the student's family's life tremendously more convenient, but do they really need it? This is just one example. The fact is students feel entitled to things that our parents never did. Maybe this is just my experience. I grew up in a relatively high income area and now go to a college with a lot of wealthy students.


Quote:
Ah, this one is also interesting. I've had far more friends become fundamentalist Christians than have become Agnostic/Atheist. Most people who become Atheist/Agnostic are that way for a good reason, not because they 'put religion in the backseat'. It's because for many, religion makes no logical sense. I also found it odd that there was a pretty big correlation with the folks that converted and became more fundamental...they all had something bad happen in their lives around the conversion time. For one, his parents were divorced, another had a miscarriage, another had a 'near death experience' during surgery. Very interesting.
Again, I don't think it's bad to be atheist or agnostic, but I have been made to feel uncomfortable about still being a devout practicer of my faith. And when I think about it you're right about people who become atheist/agnostic choosing that through their own reasoning. But there are a lot of people who allow their faith to take a back seat in their life. They still call themselves a Christian or whatever the case may be, but they don't take the faith seriously and seem to look down on those who do. Often, these people tend to have fewer morals than any atheists or agnostics I know. Keep in mind the difference between correlation and causality. I'm not saying lack of faith/adherence to faith causes lack of morals, just that there seems to be a correlation. Again morals being defined as what is considered good behavior in American society, nothing to do with what any religion says. I don't know of young people who have been "saved" or "born again" personally but that's interesting to hear.

Quote:
I don't look at most religious people and immediately think 'brain-washed radical'. The ones I have a problem with, are the ones who try to get Creationism taught in school as science, who fan the flames on the fictional 'war on christmas', the ones who come to my door at 9am on a Saturday to help me 'find Jesus' (if he was so important, why'd you lose him? ) and of course, the Westboro Baptist crazies.
I love the whole war on Christmas thing too. Sure most Americans don't think of Christ at Christmas, but it's not like such a time ever existed when they did. Nothing's changing except now the far right has decided to yearn for the "old America"... which never existed. But anyway, I find that people who have decided to become atheist/agnostic tend to look down on others who are religious as if we're not as smart because we believe something as irrational as Christianity or whatever other faith. I'm not saying they all do, but it's certainly not uncommon.
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Old 11-25-2009, 03:48 PM
 
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I'm 16, and I consider myself a pretty solid liberal, but not far left. Most of my friends are moderate or are apathetic towards the topic of politics.
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,112 posts, read 30,534,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymd View Post
I was being sarcastic there actually. The point I was trying to make is that it is a stereotype that young people today don't have any values. This is unfortunate because stereotypes don't appear out of nowhere. But honestly I think civility, manners, speaking proper english (or whatever language you speak, let's not get into that debate here), and using appropriate language are all values we can agree are good. At least, that is how society views them. It doesn't matter much what I or others think, because that won't change.



Well, possibly, but I just finished up high school not too long ago and I can tell you students were constantly whining about how their parents only got them a new $20,000 car after they totaled the first one, and complaining about how mom and dad need to get them new Abercrombie clothes 'cause everyone else was getting them, and how they deserve a better cell phone because flip phones are uncool. If you asked most of the students in my school if having a car was a necessity, nearly all of them would say yes. And most of them came from stable two-parent households where they really didn't need a car of their own. Heck, even if that wasn't the case, they can get rides with friends/friends' parents/neighbors etc. Certainly having a car makes the student's family's life tremendously more convenient, but do they really need it? This is just one example. The fact is students feel entitled to things that our parents never did. Maybe this is just my experience. I grew up in a relatively high income area and now go to a college with a lot of wealthy students.




Again, I don't think it's bad to be atheist or agnostic, but I have been made to feel uncomfortable about still being a devout practicer of my faith. And when I think about it you're right about people who become atheist/agnostic choosing that through their own reasoning. But there are a lot of people who allow their faith to take a back seat in their life. They still call themselves a Christian or whatever the case may be, but they don't take the faith seriously and seem to look down on those who do. Often, these people tend to have fewer morals than any atheists or agnostics I know. Keep in mind the difference between correlation and causality. I'm not saying lack of faith/adherence to faith causes lack of morals, just that there seems to be a correlation. Again morals being defined as what is considered good behavior in American society, nothing to do with what any religion says. I don't know of young people who have been "saved" or "born again" personally but that's interesting to hear.


I love the whole war on Christmas thing too. Sure most Americans don't think of Christ at Christmas, but it's not like such a time ever existed when they did. Nothing's changing except now the far right has decided to yearn for the "old America"... which never existed. But anyway, I find that people who have decided to become atheist/agnostic tend to look down on others who are religious as if we're not as smart because we believe something as irrational as Christianity or whatever other faith. I'm not saying they all do, but it's certainly not uncommon.

Ah, I think, I misinterpreted some of what you said originally, that happens on the internet

I think my opinions were largely formed by the people I grew up around. My parents were very open, very loving and just a tad bit on the crazy side so they let me explore things in my life that many kids don't get to do until they leave the comfort of the 'nest'.

I've had this conversation before, and many people find it unbelievable that I know so many 'born agains' and fundamentalists when I live in a fairly liberal part of California, but that's just the way it goes I guess. I guess it helps that there are 42 churches currently in the town I grew up in....with 25,000 residents. I generally didn't associate with the 'haves' while I was growing up, and my parents made me work my way towards everything without much help. I guess I was lucky in that sense .
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Old 11-26-2009, 12:53 AM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
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Whew, I just barely fit the bill for this thread, and I won't for much longer. And I certainly have a hard time considering myself "Youth" these days! A little background, I was raised in a very religious, conservative home. Aside from what I would consider pretty intense religious indoctrination, I feel my parents raised me fairly well. They taught me to keep my language clean (which I mostly do) and to never hate anyone. That second item is very important to me, and I feel the best thing they did for me. As a teenager, I wasn't exactly interested in politics, but on some issues I found myself fairly moderate. For example, in high school speech class we were assigned to give a persuasive speech. I argued for gay rights. At a conservative, Christian high school. It didn't go over too well with the class.

As I progressed into my early 20s, I became more aware of what was happening in politics, and I became more conservative, largely due to hearing my father rant and rave about liberals all the time (he has progressively become more conservative in my lifetime). I was constantly surrounded by this and religion, and so I was influenced to feel the same way. I got a job which required sharing an office with a guy who listened to conservative talk radio all day, every day. I became more conservative, and angry! The talk show hosts displayed a blatant hatred for liberals, and I fully agreed with it. My own parents began to show an extreme dislike (I hesitate to use "hatred") for pretty much anyone who was different than them. I also developed high blood pressure (in my early 20s!). I still wasn't as far right as some, but I was pretty darn close. I thought there should prayer held in public schools, on school time, and performed by school leaders. I thought the ten commandments should be placed in government buildings. I was kind of okay with homosexuals being allowed civil unions, but certainly not marriage. I believed abortion for ANY reason was wrong. And I mean ANY reason, including when the mother's life is in danger. This was my biggest issue, in fact. I could continue with this list, but you probably get the idea.

Then I moved out of my parents' house, and no longer had the office job. Maybe a little late for some, I know, but it was the best I could do with what little money I had. When I would come home from work I no longer heard someone else complaining about someone else all the time. I listened to music on the radio, when I listened at all. Commuting to another city for work had caused me to despise driving, so when the opportunity for a job near my apartment opened up, I jumped on it. To save money, I started biking to work and sold my truck. This small amount of exercise, combined with peace and quiet at home and the loss of a stressful commute, all led to my blood pressure returning to normal levels which allowed me to quit my medication (from 180/110 to 120/80). I grew tired of enduring advertisements on television, so I stopped watching it. Instead, I read a lot of classic fiction, and I still do. Around this time, something happened and I couldn't tell you exactly when or why. I started to return to my more moderate self. I realized that I didn't give a crap if gay people wanted to marry each other. I realized that I loved being out in nature, and that it wasn't unreasonable to want to protect that. Most importantly, I realized that someone who wasn't exactly like me wasn't "stupid" or "evil" just for that reason. In short, I had become pretty liberal myself.

I won't go into the religious de-conversion, because this post has become lengthy enough and this is, after all, the political forum. But in the end, I wound up being almost 180 degrees from where I had been both mentally and physically, solely because I no longer assumed what I heard was true or automatically best for everyone. A nice bonus is that I can now look at almost any issue, both politically and religiously, and honestly look at it from two entirely different perspectives. This has resulted in me not being 100% left on every single issue, whereas when I was younger I was almost completely 100% right-leaning.
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Old 11-27-2009, 05:38 AM
 
173 posts, read 363,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
This is an interesting point, because I find it odd that you say 'young people' can't possibly have any values... is that because the young person's values don't mirror your own? Whose to say that your 'values' are better or worse than anyone else's?

The sense of entitlement is also interesting, because most of the young people I know don't have this 'sense of entitlement' that so many people go on and on about. They are hard working, intelligent people....but those types of young people don't get media attention. I have a feeling there are more of the 'normal' young adults than the entitled ones, you just don't hear about them as often because they don't stick out.



Agreed.



Ah, this one is also interesting. I've had far more friends become fundamentalist Christians than have become Agnostic/Atheist. Most people who become Atheist/Agnostic are that way for a good reason, not because they 'put religion in the backseat'. It's because for many, religion makes no logical sense. I also found it odd that there was a pretty big correlation with the folks that converted and became more fundamental...they all had something bad happen in their lives around the conversion time. For one, his parents were divorced, another had a miscarriage, another had a 'near death experience' during surgery. Very interesting.



I don't look at most religious people and immediately think 'brain-washed radical'. The ones I have a problem with, are the ones who try to get Creationism taught in school as science, who fan the flames on the fictional 'war on christmas', the ones who come to my door at 9am on a Saturday to help me 'find Jesus' (if he was so important, why'd you lose him? ) and of course, the Westboro Baptist crazies.

That doesn't mean I dislike ALL religious people...just the wackos who try to get legislation passed to force me to think or act like they do.

And I'm a 25 year old female, if that makes a difference.
Something I would like to add on ...

There seems to be too much conflict between liberals and conservatives in your country ( the radicals in both camps )

Where I come from liberals and conservatives , atheists and christians live together ... we have a balanced libertarian strain in all of us I guess and a bit of tolerance for dissenting worldviews

I remember when I was younger and they talked about those groups in high schools ... the jocks , the preps , the rappers , the goths , the emos and so on that somehow exist in other countries

Problem ? Where I come we DO have different people but amazingly ... no major strife

The '' cool '' kids talk with the '' uncool '' , the average and vice versa

Last but not least about the whole atheism and agnostic thing

The problem ? This disgusting form of atheism and agnosticism that many practice in USA or whatever ( and I LOVE the USA btw =) ) is spreading to other countries )=

We have atheists but now ? We have rabid anti religious atheists

I'm a Christian that learned creation at home , learned evolution at school and found it fascinanting ... I just don't believe in evolution ( at least macro evolution )

But I don't go around teaching '' Creationism ''

Sadly this type of radicalism ( from both sides ) is spreading here and I am
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:44 AM
 
173 posts, read 363,712 times
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Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
Whew, I just barely fit the bill for this thread, and I won't for much longer. And I certainly have a hard time considering myself "Youth" these days! A little background, I was raised in a very religious, conservative home. Aside from what I would consider pretty intense religious indoctrination, I feel my parents raised me fairly well. They taught me to keep my language clean (which I mostly do) and to never hate anyone. That second item is very important to me, and I feel the best thing they did for me. As a teenager, I wasn't exactly interested in politics, but on some issues I found myself fairly moderate. For example, in high school speech class we were assigned to give a persuasive speech. I argued for gay rights. At a conservative, Christian high school. It didn't go over too well with the class.

As I progressed into my early 20s, I became more aware of what was happening in politics, and I became more conservative, largely due to hearing my father rant and rave about liberals all the time (he has progressively become more conservative in my lifetime). I was constantly surrounded by this and religion, and so I was influenced to feel the same way. I got a job which required sharing an office with a guy who listened to conservative talk radio all day, every day. I became more conservative, and angry! The talk show hosts displayed a blatant hatred for liberals, and I fully agreed with it. My own parents began to show an extreme dislike (I hesitate to use "hatred") for pretty much anyone who was different than them. I also developed high blood pressure (in my early 20s!). I still wasn't as far right as some, but I was pretty darn close. I thought there should prayer held in public schools, on school time, and performed by school leaders. I thought the ten commandments should be placed in government buildings. I was kind of okay with homosexuals being allowed civil unions, but certainly not marriage. I believed abortion for ANY reason was wrong. And I mean ANY reason, including when the mother's life is in danger. This was my biggest issue, in fact. I could continue with this list, but you probably get the idea.

Then I moved out of my parents' house, and no longer had the office job. Maybe a little late for some, I know, but it was the best I could do with what little money I had. When I would come home from work I no longer heard someone else complaining about someone else all the time. I listened to music on the radio, when I listened at all. Commuting to another city for work had caused me to despise driving, so when the opportunity for a job near my apartment opened up, I jumped on it. To save money, I started biking to work and sold my truck. This small amount of exercise, combined with peace and quiet at home and the loss of a stressful commute, all led to my blood pressure returning to normal levels which allowed me to quit my medication (from 180/110 to 120/80). I grew tired of enduring advertisements on television, so I stopped watching it. Instead, I read a lot of classic fiction, and I still do. Around this time, something happened and I couldn't tell you exactly when or why. I started to return to my more moderate self. I realized that I didn't give a crap if gay people wanted to marry each other. I realized that I loved being out in nature, and that it wasn't unreasonable to want to protect that. Most importantly, I realized that someone who wasn't exactly like me wasn't "stupid" or "evil" just for that reason. In short, I had become pretty liberal myself.

I won't go into the religious de-conversion, because this post has become lengthy enough and this is, after all, the political forum. But in the end, I wound up being almost 180 degrees from where I had been both mentally and physically, solely because I no longer assumed what I heard was true or automatically best for everyone. A nice bonus is that I can now look at almost any issue, both politically and religiously, and honestly look at it from two entirely different perspectives. This has resulted in me not being 100% left on every single issue, whereas when I was younger I was almost completely 100% right-leaning.
Interesting story

Radical Christianity started to gain a bit of ground where I come from but thanks to Barack Obama ( and I dislike his policies greatly btw ) an air of '' secularism '' came in and well in a strange way killed of the Christian cults and the radicals ( you will ask how ? I don't know but Barack Obama is good on this )

I'm a conservative , a libertarian and a moderate and always changing between these three ( just make me a mixture between these three lol )

My story is a bit different and maybe that is why I'm not a liberal ( and so many other things too ) nor a right wing extremist

But I do find conservatism attractive

I'm very much fascinated by Ancient Greece , Ancient Rome , Judaism , Christianity , Conservative eras in Europe and elsewhere , traditions from all of the Americas ( North , Central and South ) , Africa , Australia and Asia

Moderation to me means in between or balanced and I like that a lot

I'm authoritarian on some things and libertarian on many things
Libertarian thought attractes me a lot ( and some Authoritarian )

I like liberalism but there is too much I don't like about it either
Things like political correctness , affirmative action , promiscuity and so on

First of my parents ...

My father is Angolan , African
My mother is Russian

So I'm mixed

My grandmother was a Russian Jew
I was born in Lisbon , Portugal
Lived in Singapore
Lived in Portugal
Lived most of my life in Angola

I speak four languages ( Portuguese , Russian , French and English )

My father was in traditional African religions before he became a Christian ... when he became a Christian he started moderate , then went radical , went moderate back again , now a bit radical and thankfully he's going moderate once and for all and never going radical back again

My mother well was born in countryside Russia and not Moscow so you know ( so she was traditional by nature ... but not religious thought ... Moscow has gotten too liberal from what I've seen ) ... her mother was a Russian Jew by race and some by tradition ... her father was agnostic and converted to Christianity a few years before he died ( I was there when he was buried in Portugal )

She told me that when she was younger it was all tradition and she believed in a higher power somewhat but didn't really go into it ( a Deist I think )

I love Europe and all but I dislike how dead sometimes the secular air felt to me in the European countries I went ... I'm really bi polar on this issue ... I like securalism because it kills of untrue Christianity and makes Christianity look at itself and be proper and keeps the loons in check

I dislike it because sometimes it just has no life and can get radically anti religious

Both of my parents are what people would call '' 1st '' generation Christians ( conversion instead of passing it down ) and while so many people think that Christians have brainwashed people in the '' 3rd '' and '' 2nd '' world the truth is this

In the 1900's less than 10 % of African considered itself Christian and it was well into the 1960's ( when the '' Sexual Revolution '' occured )

Christianity only started to gain a little ground in the the 1970's and early 1980's and '' launched '' of in the 1990's

The exact time when those '' evil colonialist '' Europeans completely left is when Christianity started to spread

My home ? Like I told you about my Papa ... he was truly a great man ... he is one of the reasons why I prefer masculine men even

He was patriarchtical and he always looked out the best for me ... and guess what ?

Even though my Mama was a housewife he encouraged me to be an Engineer because he wanted me to be more like him

But one of the things I didn't like is how ultra religious he could get sometimes

I'm not talking about being moral and ethics
That was normal

I'm talking about spouting like a lunatic

He would like pray and his head would go up and down , up and down , up and down ... and he would make noise sounds while he prayed ... he would be occasionally really loud ... and sometimes stomped his feet on the ground and sometimes other stuff

My Mama is how I am

She was always moderate
Religious but not insane

( I love the whole concept of femininity because of her too and trust me she ain't weak just because she's feminine ... she got a degree in Engineering too ... in fact that is where my Papa and my Mama met !! They both studied Engineering ... in the end she quit being an Engineer because of me , my sister and my brother ... she stayed home for us and we got a great childhood because of this decision )

You know how some people go like blasphemy !!! Heresy !!! We believed in that in a moderate ( my Mama when I was younger and we were watching a show about Asia and in particular India and I bowed down and did a ritual like that on TV and my mother told '' That's not okay ... stop it '' ) but anyhow this is how Christianity went in my household

Read the Bible , prayed together as a family , watched some Christian videos and listened to Christian music ... my all time favourites are Don Moen , Hillsong , Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith

This is what I heard when I was little ---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ITMxRfBx-E

I grew up watching things like Digimon , Anime as a whole , movies where sex occured and so on

And for my parents strange mixture of liberal ( in letting me see it ) and conservative values ( teaching me it and showing it to me ) I thankful for it

I saw the whole picture

Nonetheless I'm
I know too many new atheists now thanks to Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens

Stop spreading them

I miss the old atheists and agnostics

Together we did so many things together ... We went to Museums , watched Evolution , listened to many skeptics and so on

Now ? Nothing but the loony atheists and agnostics

I can't even talk to one about the Bible before they go '' The Bible is full of * insert here * ''

I just want to say to all of the people here

Being taught Christianity , being around seculars and seen so many religions in the World

I choose Christianity in the end
And I'm not the only one

Have morals but be '' open '' in a sense
Why so closed up ?

I'm a Christian

Catholicism , Orthodox and Protestant I like to research and think some things they have is biblical but in the end I'm a Christian and don't like the seperation between them in the sense that they can't see they are all Christian in the end sometimes

Not denominational
Not non denominational

Just Christian

Christianity today seems a bit extremist
Other times it's fake , superficial , cultish and too many heresies
And other times it's just too liberal

For a full list of heresies see this --- The Museum of Idolatry
That website will boogle you

Thankfully may '' Intelectual Protestantism '' come back --- Secular Right » The Death of Intellectual Protestantism
Reformation is truly needed

And the whole thing about gay marriage and abortion
Like I said my positions in the post before is what I hold today and what will hold forevermore

The thing ? My parents ( yeah even my ultra religious Papa back in his days ) never talked about gay marriage or abortion

The '' hot issue '' was every issue and in particular respect , order , responsibility and sex before marriage

I'll admit that I liked masturbating in my teenagers years ( from 13 to 17 ) with clothes on ( don't ask ... it was basically like stimulating my sexual organ and massaging ) but I'm still a virgin and haven't even gotten kissed

Lastly I'm no ally of feminism
I see those women in their 40's and 30's and no husband and family and it's sad

I'm getting my degree in economics and literature and after getting a moderate paying job I'm going to find a good hearted sexy husband that is responsible and principled and be a nice housewife like my Mama after I have my 2nd child or something

Preferably Latin looking or Fair looking

Last edited by Amelia12345678910; 11-27-2009 at 07:20 AM..
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Old 11-27-2009, 07:29 AM
 
173 posts, read 363,712 times
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Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
I am 23 and I disagree strongly. This reads like the tired old religious right's mantra of people should have freedom, but....

First, what does "Pop culture" have to do with anything...I have seen this pop up so much I am starting to think it is an ambiguous code word, which, has whatever negative meanings its users/readers want it to.

Second, if you do not like a certain style of dress, or a certain means of speech, don't dress or talk like that, no one is telling you to dress "slutty," but to be honest most of us do not like commentary about how we should dress or speak.

Third, why the heck are you so concerned with how other people think and what they do with their bodies (i.e. there use of language, their dressing, their use of alcohol, their perceptions of the world, their sexual habits, their marital status etc.) you have your own mind and body you do not need mine or any other person's for that matter.

Fourth, on abortion I support abortion laws that are consistent with every other type of real property law. There is no type of property law that supports an injurious tenant against a landlord, without the benefit of a lease similar to how anti-choice folks want to support a negative pregnancy that is injurious to a woman's ability to use her body.

Fifth, if you do not like flaming gay people you do not have to be around them why are you so concerned with what they do or do not do?

Sixth, marriage is not exclusively about reproduction...if it was why are there so many sterile married people and childless marriages? Ever since the 19th century marriage has been about romantic love. If it were still about reproduction exclusively we would still be having arranged marriages where families negotiated who they wanted in their families and who they wanted their children to breed with.

As to marriage being weakened, divorces are currently the lowest they have been since the 1970s. The only reason you hear all the complaints from the right about single mothers, and oversexualization is because there are fewer taboos about talking about them these days. There was a reason why in the 1940s Brits called American G.I.s "overpaid, and oversexed."

As to gay marriage the 14th amendment is fairly clear about equal protection. That is why gay marriage has won almost every court battle it is been in. It is not a matter of what you think history is (gay marriage occurred in ancient Greek and Roman times), but a matter of the words "Equal protection under the law" and the freedom of choice not being restricted by religious discrimination.
Gay marriage occured in Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome ?
It never did

The whole idea that marriage was for reproduction is argued in some circles that it came from Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome

Women were for reproduction and for order
Men were for pleasure

You're one sick puppy

Abuse of Boys in the Ancient Greece and Rome (http://www.section21.m6.net/res-history.php - broken link)

Required Texts

Marriage was and is for reproduction

This occured in Ancient Greece , Ancient Rome , Japan and so on
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:46 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 10,062,862 times
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Im 22 and pretty far to the right. In fact, of all my friends that voted in the 2008 election the majority favored McCain/Palin and are either conservative or moderate/independent. Granted, Long Island - especially on the South Shore - has traditionally been Republican leaning.

The reason why most people assume the majority of the under 30 crowd to be far to the left is because the only ones that make a big deal about the politics are the ones who are liberal/far left. Activist politics are almost entirely a liberal thing.
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:19 PM
 
Location: NC
9,984 posts, read 10,350,384 times
Reputation: 3086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia12345678910 View Post
Gay marriage occured in Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome ?
It never did

The whole idea that marriage was for reproduction is argued in some circles that it came from Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome

Women were for reproduction and for order
Men were for pleasure

You're one sick puppy

Abuse of Boys in the Ancient Greece and Rome (http://www.section21.m6.net/res-history.php - broken link)

Required Texts

Marriage was and is for reproduction

This occured in Ancient Greece , Ancient Rome , Japan and so on

You like to read: Please read Same Sex Marriage the Personal and Political it documents same sex marriage in ancient Rome. I am specifically talking about same sex marriage not pederasty though it seems you are unable to differentiate between the two.

Additionally, if it was not happening why was it specifically banned in the Theodosian code with remedies for people already in such unions.

Additionally, Same-Sex marriage occurred among several Native American tribes among two-spirit persons.

As to marriage the idea of marriage changed from breeding to romantic love in the 19th century...thus the decline in arraigned marriages around that time as well as the publication of some really good romantic fiction. Additionally if marriage was only about breeding, why are there so many married couples who have no desire to or cannot have children?

As to you being a libertarian...Sure whatever you want to think.

Last edited by Randomstudent; 11-27-2009 at 01:40 PM..
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