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I know plenty of adults who manage adult life well who also are ardent gamers. They pick what to do with their free time and they like gaming. I don't see a difference myself between them and the film buff who spends their time watching movies and talking them with friendlies.
You can expand the question into a broader range. There are adult women who collect dolls and go to doll conventions and spend their spare time caring for their dolls. Are they 'losers'? Or the reader who would rather read than go somewhere they couldn't. Or anyone in a fandom who sees it as their central identity. Or people so deeply into crafts its the dominant thing they spend their free time doing.
People who lean this way will find something and take pleasure from it. Why should any be better or worse?
There's this documentary I saw about trekkies who go Klingon. They had a get together at the same area where there was a doll convention and a display of hand made rugs. The others were fascinated by the detail of the Klingon group and the Klingon group completely understood the others, and apprecated their work. And one trek convention we had a Lincoln group next door. We had a great time with them, admired the work in their period clothes and they ours, and gave access to the hucksters room to each other. The OPs question really reflects the view of those who stay on the surface and don't find deep hobbies/passions more than it does seeing either as they are. What if it was art contisures and film buffs? Would the same 'judgement' come in?
Interesting question. I'll take a whack at it, but I'll preface it by saying I'm a serious movie person who has never played any game involving a computer/internet, unless you count something like Minesweeper.
First, I think gamers are considered as likely to be more inherently anti-social or non-social. Movie people are more likely to go to movies with someone else, plus which traditionally, movies are seen in theaters, where you have the classic communal experience.
Second, although I know that games actually get reviewed, they're not at the point where they're considered art in any way.
Third, my impression of games (without having experienced them, as I said!) is that they don't generally require much from you emotionally or intellectually, and are unlikely to be a broader learning experience. Have you ever had a game move you to tears, for instance?
Fourth, they are inextricably linked in the public mind with violence.
Does any of that sound reasonable to you?
You make some fair points and I would like to address a few of them. I'm also a serious movie person but also a serious game person too!
I'm a long term gamer who started gaming in the 80s with my dear hubby. In fact, we met over a game of Space Invaders in 1981! I really got into PC gaming after watching a coworker play Zork on his Mac in the office (1985 ish). Games grabbed my imagination and really never let go. I'm also a huge reader so I have a very active imagination and can satisfy that craving through movies, books and of course gaming! I think that gaming also led to my husband's love of computers. He went on to obtain a Masters of Science in Computer Science and has had a very successful career in IT since then. We've been gaming together for 32+ years of marriage.
I think that most non gamers don't understand the whole scope of computer games. Of course you have the ones that get the bad press or the ones popular with the FPS crowd where you have a bunch of trash talking adolescent kids blasting each other apart. People do equate many games with violence and that is all they see. The press also loves focusing on these aspects of gaming. My dad has never understood my gaming passion. He thinks that I spend countless hours online blasting stuff apart with teenagers--sigh. He doesn't understand that gaming tastes can be as broad as movie tastes. Some folks love action movies. Some others love the talky chick flicks. Some love horror. Some love foreign films. Games are the same way. Over the years, I've given up trying to explain. My passion is MMOs. I love immersive online worlds where I can play with my husband and friends. I've met folks of all ages and from all walks of life. Some of these experiences can last you years and lead to some lasting friendships.
I do think that games can be emotionally and intellectually immersive and works of art. Take Myst for example. A confounding puzzle game that was absolutely gorgeous in its day. Really a work of art. I'm currently playing Elder Scrolls Online---a visually gorgeous world filled with hours and hours of lore, exploring, great stories, epic music and an audience that ranges from teens to senior citizens. The world is stunning. In fact I have some concept art as my wall paper on my computer. As to intellectually challenging---try The Secret World (an MMO) and try solving some of the investigation missions. In some of the missions, you have to translate Morse Code, translate ancient languages, know some coding, etc. The mental challenge in this game was mind boggling--too much for my poor little brain to handle at times. Some games, if the story is written well enough, can also move you to tears. Or moments of great awe.
My point is that games come in all flavors and it isn't just about blowing zombies to bits or running down people in cars for sport. Unfortunately, many non gamers don't understand this and games continue to get a bad reputation. I do have to chuckle a bit---with Smart devices all around, I see many "non gamers" spending hours on their mobile devices obsessively playing games. Or folks on FB putting in many hours (and dollars) on Farmville and other games. Yet they don't consider themselves gamers in any shape or form.
In any case, I hope to be playing games long into my senior years and I'm getting there. I try to pace myself so that I have a good balance in my life. I do think that gaming to excess can be a very bad thing and at times have had to work on balance in my own life. It is something that I enjoy and along with my other hobbies, hopefully will keep myself very busy.
This is a major point.
Movies are total crap now.
So how can you take pride in being a "buff" anymore than a GTAV fanatic?
Though I do like the GTA franchise.
You're presuming that "film buffs" watch only new movies. I doubt they watch many. I'd guess they're watching older movies.
But, as to the original question. Maybe it has something to do with (and this is only my perception ... not really my field of "expertise") the fact that gamers are known to play for hours and hours on end. A movie is two hours long. And most people don't watch them back to back to back.
I think because film is understood by everyone, and can be discussed by most people after it's over. Most films draw, to varying degrees on issues that connect us to real life.
Games take people away from real life. People who do not play or understand gaming, don't want to hear about your score or the fantasy world in the game.
Film is closely related to to literature. People who read, generally enjoy a good film. There are block buster movies - which are more like games, but then there are well written films, that are more like novels.
1st: Most people play online multiplayer games now. So you are playing against another human, if not against/with a real life friend
2nd: It's vastly changed in the past 15 years. You'd have a hard time telling the difference between some games and films like Avatar.
3rd: This has also changed with expanding genres. For example strategy and real time based games. But you are correct, many games still rely on instincts/quick finger punching. I'll also note that with the evolution of role playing games, people are actually more connected to their character in the game than someone in a film they are sharing only 1.5 hours with. After endless hours, days and even years (World of Warcraft) spent on one single character, it becomes almost like a child
4th: Hollywood is quite violent and also brainless violence may I add
But you raise some valid points.
Sorry, you don't seem to have quite gotten the gist of my points.
1. Regardless of whether you're playing with a person or not, the sense is that it's an activity focused on the game that not likely to trigger any meaningful discussion. I guess gamers may discuss techniques and strategy, but the idea is that with movies there's a possibility that it will trigger a discussion about life, love, society, etc.
2. When I spoke of "art," I was thinking of the whole package, including plot and dialogue, not just the visual realism.
3. I'm not sure that the goal of a movie is necessarily connecting with the character, and even if it were, my impression of games is that it's most often a matter of strategy in dangerous situations. That's fine if the only movies you'd go to see would be Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible movies, but available movies are far broader than that.
4. While you're right that Hollywood movies are often deplorably violent, my impression is (speaking as a non-gamer, you remember) is that a far higher portion of games are indeed completely geared toward violence. These days I see an average of perhaps 100 movies a year - current movies in theaters, I mean - and I'd say only about 5% of them are very violent. I think movies offer a breadth of love stories, quest stories, coming of age stories, etc., that I suspect one doesn't much find in games.
Interesting question. I'll take a whack at it, but I'll preface it by saying I'm a serious movie person who has never played any game involving a computer/internet, unless you count something like Minesweeper.
First, I think gamers are considered as likely to be more inherently anti-social or non-social. Movie people are more likely to go to movies with someone else, plus which traditionally, movies are seen in theaters, where you have the classic communal experience.
Second, although I know that games actually get reviewed, they're not at the point where they're considered art in any way.
Third, my impression of games (without having experienced them, as I said!) is that they don't generally require much from you emotionally or intellectually, and are unlikely to be a broader learning experience. Have you ever had a game move you to tears, for instance?
Fourth, they are inextricably linked in the public mind with violence.
Does any of that sound reasonable to you?
Well, I am a 43 year old woman that has been playing games for a loooong time so I can answer some of your statements.
1. There are lots of games that are geared towards social play. MMORPG's are a huge one. I have played many and been (and am) in many a guild and have played with plenty of men/women of all ages. Sure watching a movie with others is fun, but being able to talk to friends as well as play/strategize together is something else!
Not to mention, isn't what is considered art subjective? Even among artists that paint for example may not view something like Piccaso as "art".
3. The problem is, most of what the media shows is just the shooting FPS games or such, yet there are PLENTY of games out there that invoke emotional/intellectual responses. One notable series is Metal Gear Solid series. It's brought me to tears a few times even. Everything from the story to the music is amazing!
Not that you'll be able to get the context, but here are a few of my favorite scenes from the series:
4. That is true, but only because the stupid as hell MSM likes to sensationalize EVERYTHING! Just like when there is a school shooting they always bring up that the shooter played violent games. Never mind the fact millions of people play them without shooting anyone or doing anything violent.
Things are better today than they were in the past, and as time goes on it will be more and more acceptable. I bet when film first came out there were plenty of people that had thoughts to the effect of "Geez, why do so many people waste time sitting in theaters watching moving pictures?".
Last edited by PeaceAndLove42; 05-03-2014 at 03:24 AM..
Interesting question. I'll take a whack at it, but I'll preface it by saying I'm a serious movie person who has never played any game involving a computer/internet, unless you count something like Minesweeper.
First, I think gamers are considered as likely to be more inherently anti-social or non-social. Movie people are more likely to go to movies with someone else, plus which traditionally, movies are seen in theaters, where you have the classic communal experience.
Second, although I know that games actually get reviewed, they're not at the point where they're considered art in any way.
Third, my impression of games (without having experienced them, as I said!) is that they don't generally require much from you emotionally or intellectually, and are unlikely to be a broader learning experience. Have you ever had a game move you to tears, for instance?
Fourth, they are inextricably linked in the public mind with violence.
Does any of that sound reasonable to you?
1st. There are many games that are intended to be played by large groups.
2nd. There's a huge debate going on about this right now. It's actually a very 50/50 type outlook at this point.
3rd. This is definitely a misinformed opinion. Have you heard of the Earthbound/Mother series? Those games are tearjerkers and they require a good bit of strategy.
4th. I agree that the portrayal is usually of extremely violent games. But his isn't necessarily the majority of games.
I have to admit I'm not a hardcore gamer, but I would be pretty confident in guessing that most games are almost completely about entertainment, whereas film can be boring and get away with it so long as it's saying something important.
You could probably easily find a video game equivalent of a Michael Mann film or the Star Wars saga, but you couldn't ever find a video game equivalent of Tarkovsky, Bresson or Bela Tarr. Who would play a game that simulated the suffering and pointlessness of life in post-Soviet Europe? Who would play a game about someone struggling with wholly benevolent apparitions in the crushing unknowns of deep space? Who would play a game about the existential crisis of an aging intellectual suddenly confronted with the end of the world? You would need to put men with guns or space aliens or demons or puzzles or something in there if it were a game, which would completely destroy the message.
The best films are part of an art form similar to literature and theater, and can be studied as such... but most of the games I've played are limited to superficial entertainment/hollow rip-offs of crime dramas with simplistic, familiar storylines borrowed from movies or cartoons, with maybe a little cheap melodrama thrown in that mostly follows the Hollywood playbook of emotional manipulation... and at worst they're mostly designed to take your money.
Video games can do low art well enough, but they will never be able to do high art.
I agree that movie buffs are held in higher regard then video game buffs, but if someone came up to me and said they were a movie buff I'd still think they were weird. Unless you are getting paid to do it, I don't think you would be looked upon with awe because most grown people with jobs, mortgages, kids, etc don't have an inordinate amount of time to do anything.
I mean, this applies to almost anything. Any adult that says they love to do something a lot will get some sort of negative reaction out of another person who thinks the shouldn't or is jealous of the fact that they have more time/money to do that thing more then they do. Golf, shopping, hunting, reading - it doesn't matter.
But still, yes - I concede that playing video games is considered very juvenile and on the low end on the of the totem pole of worthy adult activities.
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