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Old 09-15-2018, 02:37 AM
 
2,922 posts, read 964,578 times
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I liked it a lot when I was teenager but now, looking back it feels kind of lacking for the high classic that is.

SPOILER

Basically the story doesn't really have any character arcs, and it's just about three guys who want gold, one guy manages to win it from the two others, and that's it really. So it feels like perhaps the most simplistic and the least deep Italian western I have seen maybe, but have only seen like five.

But what do you think, looking back on it now?
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Old 09-15-2018, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Under Moon & Star
1,572 posts, read 557,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
I liked it a lot when I was teenager but now, looking back it feels kind of lacking for the high classic that is.

SPOILER

Basically the story doesn't really have any character arcs, and it's just about three guys who want gold, one guy manages to win it from the two others, and that's it really. So it feels like perhaps the most simplistic and the least deep Italian western I have seen maybe, but have only seen like five.

But what do you think, looking back on it now?
It's no Once Upon a Time in the West. But then, what is?

I watch films for different reasons. It sounds like all you care about is plot. That's fine, and that's your loss. But understand that just because you want X out of a medium, it doesn't mean that everyone else does. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly is, among other things, cinematically brilliant and gorgeous to watch, with a thrilling and fully integrated score. It's a rather shallow ride, but it's an extremely fun one. It teems with humor in the many set pieces - almost like sketches - that comprise it.

The problem here is your notion that every film needs X, Y and Z because that's what purveyors of the 'rulebook' have decreed, like the composition class where you have to have an introduction, three body paragraphs, and a summary, or endless verse-verse-bridge-verse songs. There's nothing wrong with those, but God, life would be boring if we were subjected to those and nothing else. If Leone had cared about the arc of the protagonist, and tried but failed to establish one, the film would probably be lacking. But he didn't. Have you never read a book or heard a song that broke the rules and was better for it? Perhaps not. But The Good, the Bad and the Ugly broke a lot of rules. It shows. And in large part, that's why we're still talking about it half a century later.

If you haven't seen any spaghetti westerns with less depth than The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, then you cannot have seen many spaghettis, period.

PS - Your title implies childishness in those who enjoy this film more than you. Rather full of yourself, no?

PPS - Spoilers? For a 1966 film? Please.
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Old 09-15-2018, 07:22 AM
 
Location: In the house we finally own!
368 posts, read 176,711 times
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I never really watched any westerns until I met my husband 10 years ago. Before that the only ones I remember are How the West Was Won,True Grit and Lonesome Dove . I have come to enjoy them very much, and I love The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. I like the old spaghetti westerns, particularly anything with Lee VanCleef.

I also like some of the newer ones such as Silverado and Tombstone, which I never get tired of watching.

I don't agree that TGTB and TU has lost its value, it is a classic for what it is. It is unique and does not really fit into any mold, which is perhaps why it is so entertaining and stands the test of time.
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Old 09-15-2018, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Iowa
2,585 posts, read 2,887,211 times
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What captures me is the music combined with all the imagery surrounding the horrors of the Civil War, the men in the POW camp, the brutal guards and prisoners having to play music, the later battlefield scenes and dialog with the commanders, the town getting blown up, I think the movie gives a realistic picture of what it would be like getting caught up in the Civil War, IE Tuco, Angel Eyes & Blondie. I liked Tuco's family scene with his brother, the priest, where they explain his background a little for character development. The desert, the hangings, the cemetery, Tuco, Clint, the brutal prison guard, what's not to like in this picture? It had everything and was a much better film than Fist Full of Dollars or A Few Dollars More, which were OK but not the masterpiece of GB&U. Lee Van Cleef was good in all those too, he played a good guy in one of those, where he gave Clint all the bounty money at the end.
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Old 09-15-2018, 10:18 AM
 
2,922 posts, read 964,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
It's no Once Upon a Time in the West. But then, what is?

I watch films for different reasons. It sounds like all you care about is plot. That's fine, and that's your loss. But understand that just because you want X out of a medium, it doesn't mean that everyone else does. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly is, among other things, cinematically brilliant and gorgeous to watch, with a thrilling and fully integrated score. It's a rather shallow ride, but it's an extremely fun one. It teems with humor in the many set pieces - almost like sketches - that comprise it.

The problem here is your notion that every film needs X, Y and Z because that's what purveyors of the 'rulebook' have decreed, like the composition class where you have to have an introduction, three body paragraphs, and a summary, or endless verse-verse-bridge-verse songs. There's nothing wrong with those, but God, life would be boring if we were subjected to those and nothing else. If Leone had cared about the arc of the protagonist, and tried but failed to establish one, the film would probably be lacking. But he didn't. Have you never read a book or heard a song that broke the rules and was better for it? Perhaps not. But The Good, the Bad and the Ugly broke a lot of rules. It shows. And in large part, that's why we're still talking about it half a century later.

If you haven't seen any spaghetti westerns with less depth than The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, then you cannot have seen many spaghettis, period.

PS - Your title implies childishness in those who enjoy this film more than you. Rather full of yourself, no?

PPS - Spoilers? For a 1966 film? Please.
Oh I don't mean to be childish, I was just wondering why it's so enjoyed by people at an older age, when there is no character arcs it seems. I mean usually character arcs can be more emotionally moving, compared to just a chase for gold I thought.

As for spaghetti westerns, I have seen five so far, and here is the order I think I would rank them in.

1. For A Few Dollars More
2. The Great Silence
3. The Good, the bad, and the Ugly
4. A Fistful of Dollars
5. Once Upon a Time in the West

Once Upon a Time in the West may be more about character, but I felt some parts of the plot needed to be trimmed down and it still would have held together or made sense. But maybe I need to watch it again. It does have a really good pistol duel climax though.

I felt that For A Few Dollars More and The Great Silence did have a little more about character than The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly though.
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
19,354 posts, read 13,010,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
Oh I don't mean to be childish, I was just wondering why it's so enjoyed by people at an older age, when there is no character arcs it seems. I mean usually character arcs can be more emotionally moving, compared to just a chase for gold I thought.

As for spaghetti westerns, I have seen five so far, and here is the order I think I would rank them in.

1. For A Few Dollars More
2. The Great Silence
3. The Good, the bad, and the Ugly
4. A Fistful of Dollars
5. Once Upon a Time in the West

Once Upon a Time in the West may be more about character, but I felt some parts of the plot needed to be trimmed down and it still would have held together or made sense. But maybe I need to watch it again. It does have a really good pistol duel climax though.

I felt that For A Few Dollars More and The Great Silence did have a little more about character than The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly though.
The character arcs are there. They're there in the title, too!
Each of the 3 has its own arc, and each is different. They all combine to make the arc of the story.
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Old 09-18-2018, 04:38 PM
 
2,922 posts, read 964,578 times
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What arcs? They all want the money, but none of them go through any character changes, and are the same people in the end, as they were in the beginning.
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Iowa
2,585 posts, read 2,887,211 times
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Well, there was the arc from Bill Carson's tobacco, as it clamped onto Tuco's fingers after dinner at the POW camp. Later, another arc for the guard when Tuco knocks him off the train and kills him.

With all the swinging Tuco did at the end of a rope, that was enough arc for the entire film, Tuco was the arc. To spite all the rope burns, things worked out fine for Tuco and the film had a happy ending. He pulled thru at least a dozen hangings, thanks to the kindness and generosity of Blondie. Only that one time when Blondie was having a bad day, did the fatigue of having to shoot the hangman's noose off Tuco become so repetitive, with his pockets so heavy laden with bounty money, he couldn't finish his work duties and irresponsibly left Tuco 100 miles out in the desert to die. But Tuco was able to take unfair advantage of his darker complexion, and survived because he was a stand up guy, he was soon able to find Blondie and repay him, but in a cruel twist, he did not give Blondie any suntan lotion, as Tuco did not believe in affirmative action. What a relief it was, when for some unknown reason related to Arch Stanton, he decided to spare Blondie's life, giving him generous care until he recovered. This was a tender moment in the film which I enjoyed.

The bond these 2 men were forging as the movie progresses, really touched me. The trust they had built, and how much closer they had become by the end of the picture. The end was very uplifting for Tuco, in how Blondie went above and beyond what was necessary (the hill) to pay Tuco his share of the gold from a safe distance. I thought that was very white of him, Angel Eyes would never have done that for Tuco, but Blondie gave Tuco a step up.

Last edited by mofford; 09-18-2018 at 10:08 PM..
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Old 09-23-2018, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale
897 posts, read 405,524 times
Reputation: 1602
Quote:
Originally Posted by mofford View Post
What captures me is the music combined with all the imagery surrounding the horrors of the Civil War, the men in the POW camp, the brutal guards and prisoners having to play music, the later battlefield scenes and dialog with the commanders, the town getting blown up, I think the movie gives a realistic picture of what it would be like getting caught up in the Civil War, IE Tuco, Angel Eyes & Blondie. I liked Tuco's family scene with his brother, the priest, where they explain his background a little for character development. The desert, the hangings, the cemetery, Tuco, Clint, the brutal prison guard, what's not to like in this picture? It had everything and was a much better film than Fist Full of Dollars or A Few Dollars More, which were OK but not the masterpiece of GB&U. Lee Van Cleef was good in all those too, he played a good guy in one of those, where he gave Clint all the bounty money at the end.
I agree. The music makes it classic - the way it starts with the main theme song if awesome. I like the way that snippets of the main theme are injected throughout the film. I downloaded the itune on my iPad and listen to it when I drive through extremely remote, rugged dirt rounds in the desert and mountains of Eastern AZ far away from any highway or gas station. (The iPad is connected to the truck's sound system via BlueTooth). It's the kind of place you have to take a shovel and axe in case the truck gets stuck, but that music combined with the outdoor scenery of rugged Arizona is awesome.

Admittedly, many Western films of the era are not historically accureate (or geographically accurate for that matter). But this one was fun to watch for its time.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:18 PM
 
2,922 posts, read 964,578 times
Reputation: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by mofford View Post
Well, there was the arc from Bill Carson's tobacco, as it clamped onto Tuco's fingers after dinner at the POW camp. Later, another arc for the guard when Tuco knocks him off the train and kills him.

With all the swinging Tuco did at the end of a rope, that was enough arc for the entire film, Tuco was the arc. To spite all the rope burns, things worked out fine for Tuco and the film had a happy ending. He pulled thru at least a dozen hangings, thanks to the kindness and generosity of Blondie. Only that one time when Blondie was having a bad day, did the fatigue of having to shoot the hangman's noose off Tuco become so repetitive, with his pockets so heavy laden with bounty money, he couldn't finish his work duties and irresponsibly left Tuco 100 miles out in the desert to die. But Tuco was able to take unfair advantage of his darker complexion, and survived because he was a stand up guy, he was soon able to find Blondie and repay him, but in a cruel twist, he did not give Blondie any suntan lotion, as Tuco did not believe in affirmative action. What a relief it was, when for some unknown reason related to Arch Stanton, he decided to spare Blondie's life, giving him generous care until he recovered. This was a tender moment in the film which I enjoyed.

The bond these 2 men were forging as the movie progresses, really touched me. The trust they had built, and how much closer they had become by the end of the picture. The end was very uplifting for Tuco, in how Blondie went above and beyond what was necessary (the hill) to pay Tuco his share of the gold from a safe distance. I thought that was very white of him, Angel Eyes would never have done that for Tuco, but Blondie gave Tuco a step up.
But Tuco was just pretending to care for Blondie cause he wanted to use Blondie to get him to the gold. He never really cared, and there was no real arc there at all, cause he is the same character throughout, or so that is how I read it.
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