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Old 07-28-2020, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
12,818 posts, read 3,795,146 times
Reputation: 3451

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I was thinking of putting this in one of the sub-threads, but it applies to all forms of modern entertainment.

I'm not an expert on the music industry, but I think it is relevant there as well.

Art is obviously highly commoditized, more than ever before, but at the root of this reality is mass appeal. Whatever attracts the most amount of people is whatever is promoted.

However there is more to this process than meets the eye. It isn't only about what people think is good, but its also about what is easiest to communicate to the largest number of people. Its not just a relationship between the product and the customer, but the individual and his surroundings.

Individuals rely more and more on the opinion of others, not just to determine what is good, but to be part of certain content so they can be put in the loop.

For example social media homogenizes pretty organically, starting from independent posts, to wide spread trends that the masses are trying to keep up with. Once a person identifies themselves as part of a larger group, their mindset and thinking changes.

So, now we come to the heart of the matter, movies, TV Shows, video games, music, and the rest.

One addendum is TV, because streaming is so popular services are awash with hundreds of different genres looking to appeal to any niche market. That seems fine but limits the creation of a healthy objective set of principles for shows to follow. What elements are good and what are bad kind of disappear when anything goes.

With movies and video games, the plot-lines and game-play mechanics are astroturfed by the common denominator from which fans gain the most appeasement out of. They value crowd surfing over consistency. The parallel to that is deliberately making content that is deemed 'art' to win awards while sacrificing vision independent of the approval of others. Examples of the latter include Bioshock Infinite and God of War (2018), or in the case of films something like lala land, birdman, or Requiem for a Dream.

You can like these pieces of content, but they don't produce a universal value system of good/noble and bad/deviant works. A healthy substitute is something where vision produces a theme or message that is reinforced by the characters and world, rather than targeted character development and artistry to attract the attention of the critical media.

Examples of the former would include The Witcher 3, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, or in the case of film the MCU or Game of Thrones. The two video games are popular for using big open worlds with cinematic quest designs, but you can see the homogenization of game development from the time where games like pschonauts, Kotor, or Jax and Dexter were made by developers with fun ideas who developed a world to enhance the gameplay. There is nothing wrong with learning from other studios, but when relying on mass appeal determines your game structure before your own independent ideas, the finished products become more and more alike.

For the film series (Disney/HBO), Marvel's MCU and Game of Thrones rely on source material to tell their stories, but differentiate themselves by highlighting fan favorite characters and allowing them to interact/team up regardless of plot development, themes, or consistency issues.

It garners a larger viewership base, but it also destroys any substantive purpose behind creative development to the point an AI would be better fit to construct these stories and characters.

Art is not a democracy, and a focus on consumer capitalism rather than personal vision and nobility separate from the masses has diluted artistic output.

Democracy and the masses are popular ideas for Americans, but without a social hierarchy we destroy our own characters and sense of responsibility. Entertainment is prime ground to show where that is happening.
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:35 PM
 
3,162 posts, read 1,277,498 times
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Yes, with regard to television shows there will never be good ones in the future. On line groups of fans have started and they push the writers to write for whomever has the loudest voice. In the end if one group of people are loud enough characterization can be hijacked.

This is particularly cruel when you liked the character they started with and then a large group forces that character to be different

This happens too often now.
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Old 07-29-2020, 06:09 PM
 
Location: The North Star State
2,890 posts, read 888,573 times
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Much sturm und drang about the supposed good old days when art was supposedly different.

Keep telling yourselves that.

There's always been art for art's sake. And there's always been art seeking to maximize profits. Same as it always was.
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Old 07-29-2020, 06:13 PM
 
1,476 posts, read 375,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
Yes, with regard to television shows there will never be good ones in the future. On line groups of fans have started and they push the writers to write for whomever has the loudest voice. In the end if one group of people are loud enough characterization can be hijacked. .
Huh? We live in perhaps the best days ever for television.

Could you give an example of what your describing and when it actually happened on a show?
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Old 07-29-2020, 06:19 PM
 
1,476 posts, read 375,595 times
Reputation: 4067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
You can like these pieces of content, but they don't produce a universal value system of good/noble and bad/deviant works. A healthy substitute is something where vision produces a theme or message that is reinforced by the characters and world, rather than targeted character development and artistry to attract the attention of the critical media.
Honestly, everything in your post came off like just so much pseudo-intellectual babble, but can you at least explain the above in specific terms?

Are you simply saying that you think solid story has generally taken a backseat to overly-developed characters just for their own sake?
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Old 07-29-2020, 06:23 PM
 
3,162 posts, read 1,277,498 times
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Originally Posted by KemBro71 View Post
Huh? We live in perhaps the best days ever for television. Could you give an example of what your describing and when it actually happened on a show?
Gul Dukat.
Originally conceived as a complex bad guy who could be both charming and a killer his character was essentially destroyed when the show started taking flack for showing a killer in a good light.

Clark on the 100
Originally to be the love interest for Bellamy all that went side ways when a vocal group wanted a lesbian storyline.

Shall we discuss Lost
Once on line groups figured out the island was purgatory the storyline did lame backflips to go another, less good way.

I don't watch last 5 years tv because it is terrible but I saw the trends starting.
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
12,818 posts, read 3,795,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KemBro71 View Post
Honestly, everything in your post came off like just so much pseudo-intellectual babble, but can you at least explain the above in specific terms?

Are you simply saying that you think solid story has generally taken a backseat to overly-developed characters just for their own sake?
In that sentence I meant attempting to impress professional critics by using themes, design choices, and aesthetics that increases the odds of the work winning an oscar or some award.

Bioshock infinite did that and it was a terrible game (Matthematosis video). Birdman, requiem for a dream, etc. did that and while you can like those movies, their foundation wasn't something the creator thought would be good and consistent, but something that would impress a specific type of people (professional media critics).
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
12,818 posts, read 3,795,146 times
Reputation: 3451
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41 View Post
Much sturm und drang about the supposed good old days when art was supposedly different.

Keep telling yourselves that.

There's always been art for art's sake. And there's always been art seeking to maximize profits. Same as it always was.
You can try reading the OP again. All entertainment had some problem at any given time, I'm trying to enumerate a contemporary issue with today's entertainment.

Marvel Movies were driven by audience demands, not a set theme reinforced by characters and stories. Same can be said for many books and musical videos.

The audience demands have hurt entertainment, especially in how important they've become in the creative process.
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:21 PM
 
1,476 posts, read 375,595 times
Reputation: 4067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Bioshock infinite did that and it was a terrible game (Matthematosis video). Birdman, requiem for a dream, etc. did that and while you can like those movies, their foundation wasn't something the creator thought would be good and consistent, but something that would impress a specific type of people (professional media critics).
And you "know" this how?
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:23 PM
 
1,476 posts, read 375,595 times
Reputation: 4067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Marvel Movies were driven by audience demands, not a set theme reinforced by characters and stories. Same can be said for many books and musical videos.
Marvel movies are a pretty low bar. What theme is supposed to be set by a movie based on pulpy nonsense?

What are the "many books and musical videos" you are referring to?
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