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Old 05-03-2009, 11:46 AM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 15,955,884 times
Reputation: 5224

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2000 View Post
Better yet, let's cheer for people who don't even understand the word. More pot/kettle idiocy, wheeee


All Miss California had was a Koufax Moment or, perhaps, a Myerson Moment.

Sandy Koufax was one of the greatest baseball pitchers of all time. His persona was nice, serious, and mild. Baseball was his game, and he did not go around preaching to other people. Koufax was also Jewish. In 1965, Sandy Koufax led the Dodgers to the World Series. The first game of the series was on Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year. Any major league baseball pitcher would have loved to be the first pitcher for his team in the World Series, and that certainly included Sandy Koufax. But if that meant violating the greater spiritual fidelity which Koufax felt as a Jew, then he would not play. He did what he, not public opinion, thought was right.

When Bess Myerson competed in the Miss America Pageant, the easy thing to do would have been to conceal her Jewishness. Why not change "Myerson" to something less ... provocative? She, of course, did not. Like Prejean, Myerson faced hatred because of her faith, but today all but the narrowest of minds and tiniest of hearts see that not running from her Jewishness was courageous and good. Then, perhaps a less bigoted era, Bess Myerson earned and won the title of Miss America.

When Carrie Prejean answered honestly the question put to her, she had her Koufax Moment. When she refused to renounce her faith to please the mob, she had her Myerson Moment. Carrie no more wanted to be asked about her concept of marriage than Sandy wanted the first game of the World Series to fall on Yom Kippur. She was simply forced to choose between what she thought was right and what the Hollywood crowd wanted her to say.

Some people may have thought Koufax wrong for placing faith about his team or above the game of baseball. Some people may have thought Myerson foolish for not adapting a less obviously Jewish name. Some people may have though Prejean wrong for placing faith about the Miss USA Pageant or the sensibilities of gay couples. If Koufax and Myerson offended us for living lives as Jews, and if Prejean offends us for living life as a Christian, then we are in thrall to a sickening evil.

Sandy Koufax, Bess Myerson, and Carrie Prejean did not choose to fight religious wars. All they asked was to be able to compete in the mainstream of American life without having nasty haters mutilate their opportunities. They asked simply to be faithful to their faith. Should major league baseball have punished Sandy Koufax for spoiling the World Series? Should Bess Myerson have been denied the Miss America Crown because she was Jewish? Surely forcing Koufax or Myerson to sell their Jewishness at the price of competing fairly in America would have been wrong. Just as surely, asking Prejean to sell her Christianity (or instructing Prejean that her version of Christianity was improper) as the price of competing fairly in America is just as wrong.

Eric Liddell, one of the two remarkable runners portrayed in the magnificent film, Chariots of Fire, would not run in an Olympic event that was held on Sunday, this devout Christian's Sabbath. Liddell, like Koufax, was prepared to sacrifice something that he had worked his whole life to reach for something he held greater than any prize that man could give. Liddell, like Prejean, would not twist his Christianity into something that pleased the crowd.

If we are wise, then we will see that Eric Liddell was right to follow his conscience. If we are good, then we will grasp that Bess Myerson was honorable in honoring her people. If we seek tolerance, then we will bless Sandy Koufax for placing his faith above his fame. And if we care about a future of peace, justice, and love, then we will applaud Carrie Prejean for saying what she thought was right, whatever the cost.

Beyond that, we must say that the haters of old are the haters of now. The bigots who disparaged Myerson are the bigots who mock Prejean. The narrow minds and narrower hearts who cannot endure different beliefs to speak an honest opinion are the true enemies of real tolerance.


And I wish I'd said all that, but a guy named Bruce Walker did. Still, well done.

How can you possibly compare the plight of Bess Myerson to that of Prejean? Bess Myerson lived in an era where there was prejudice against Jews. It is admirable that she did not change her name to escape that prejudice. Prejean has lived her life as a single white woman(majority). What does she know about discrimination? Nothing. You cannot compare the two contestants. Prejean was clumsy in her answer. She stated that you can choose between opposite and same sex marriage, which obviously one cannot. Sh'e not the sharpest tool, that's for sure.
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:37 AM
 
1,073 posts, read 1,743,074 times
Reputation: 1264
How would you know what she's experienced in her life? Just because she's white you assume that she's never experienced discrimation?

Affirmative action is hugely discriminatory against...whites. Free speech applies more to minorities than to whites these days. "Political correctness" indicates that if you're white you should bear a burden of guilt and, god forbid, don't even think of saying anything that may "offend". However, if you're a minority, feel free to speak up and offend away.

She showed guts in her answer. Everyone's opinion should be respected for what it is, their opinion. Perez Hilton could have chosen to show some dignity and class, but chose not to.

What I find especially abhorrent is that the media in general seemed to support Hilton and not her right to express her beliefs.
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:56 PM
 
2,955 posts, read 6,631,540 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizNJ View Post
How would you know what she's experienced in her life? Just because she's white you assume that she's never experienced discrimation?

Affirmative action is hugely discriminatory against...whites. Free speech applies more to minorities than to whites these days. "Political correctness" indicates that if you're white you should bear a burden of guilt and, god forbid, don't even think of saying anything that may "offend". However, if you're a minority, feel free to speak up and offend away.

She showed guts in her answer. Everyone's opinion should be respected for what it is, their opinion. Perez Hilton could have chosen to show some dignity and class, but chose not to.

What I find especially abhorrent is that the media in general seemed to support Hilton and not her right to express her beliefs.
Yeah, I was being totally unfair. The girl is probably just very ignorant because she never got any fair shots in this crazy world. Poor little beauty queen couldn't get a good education because minorities get all the opportunities here in the USA -- damn Affirmative Action!
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:42 AM
 
4,721 posts, read 13,620,351 times
Reputation: 4685
Quote:
Originally Posted by b. frank View Post
Yeah, I was being totally unfair. The girl is probably just very ignorant because she never got any fair shots in this crazy world. Poor little beauty queen couldn't get a good education because minorities get all the opportunities here in the USA -- damn Affirmative Action!
LOL
I am waiting for her sharp,well worded, intellegent answer today on the nude photos that have just
surfaced.
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:12 AM
 
Location: 95468
1,383 posts, read 2,065,834 times
Reputation: 937
The question perez really asked was this. Are you willing to misrepresent your beliefs to win this competetion? She answered no and was punished. Considering the situation I think it did take courage to stand there and say that. But more importantly it showed character. The end does not justify the means. For some people anyway.
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:58 AM
 
Location: East Tennessee and Atlanta
3,033 posts, read 8,274,339 times
Reputation: 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsey_Mcfarren View Post
Oh yea, props to her for showing her bigotry and how simpleminded she is.

This isn't about Perez Hilton, the question he asked was on a list of questions that were given to the women ahead of time, they all knew it was a posibility it would be asked so stop trying to put the spotlight on someone who doesn't matter in the equation.

She is a bigot and she hides behind her so called christianity to do it.
Yeah, I agree with you. I saw her on the "Today" show, and she is "fighting to save traditional marriage."

Save it from what?? All the gays that will destroy marriage? Are they gonna make the divorce rate go up to 50%. Oh wait, it already is.

She's on a religious crusade, and the more she speaks, the dumber she sounds. It is becoming apparent to the majority of the American public that the fight against gay marriage is strictly being held within the confines of the fundamentalist Baptist, Catholic, and Mormon-type people. Those that think marriage is a religious institution and all....

Anyway, let her keep talking, she'll unravel soon enough....
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Old 05-05-2009, 12:03 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
13,121 posts, read 17,669,146 times
Reputation: 22475
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizNJ View Post
How would you know what she's experienced in her life? Just because she's white you assume that she's never experienced discrimation?

Affirmative action is hugely discriminatory against...whites. Free speech applies more to minorities than to whites these days. "Political correctness" indicates that if you're white you should bear a burden of guilt and, god forbid, don't even think of saying anything that may "offend". However, if you're a minority, feel free to speak up and offend away.

She showed guts in her answer. Everyone's opinion should be respected for what it is, their opinion. Perez Hilton could have chosen to show some dignity and class, but chose not to.

What I find especially abhorrent is that the media in general seemed to support Hilton and not her right to express her beliefs.
Amen and I agree with you 100% and the Perez Hiltons of the world are the ones that are supposed to be claiming tolerance and compassion . sounds like to me that they dont know the meaning of the words .
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Old 05-05-2009, 12:31 PM
 
4,721 posts, read 13,620,351 times
Reputation: 4685
[QUOTE=phonelady61;8662850]Amen and I agree with you 100% Perez Hiltons of and the the world are the ones that are supposed to be claiming tolerance and compassion . sounds like to me that they dont know the meaning of the words .[/quote]
OMG you mean there are more??
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:31 AM
 
812 posts, read 2,080,008 times
Reputation: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertjohnson View Post
The question perez really asked was this. Are you willing to misrepresent your beliefs to win this competetion? She answered no and was punished. Considering the situation I think it did take courage to stand there and say that. But more importantly it showed character. The end does not justify the means. For some people anyway.
again, lack of critical reasoning. she was not honest, she was hypocritical in her statement.

she implied that america is great for allowing for choices yet she doesn't really endorse the choice of gay marriage. dumb answer but worse, hypocritical answer.

that's like saying i endorse the rights of anyone to their personal choice to attend church but i'm against attending church and think it's wrong. dumb and contradictory, since her beliefs extend beyond HER personal choice and would work against those who who attend church. very hypocritical answer but classic rightwinger deviousness.

it was obvious she added that quip to alleviate herself from judgement of her bigoted opinion. that also was dumb because it is incorrect in context.

if she had just left that out and stated why besides saying something as dumb as 'i was raised to believe' then she would have some credibility as a thinking adult. as if being raised to believe something makes it right, lol.

Last edited by leaana; 05-07-2009 at 05:55 AM..
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:39 AM
 
812 posts, read 2,080,008 times
Reputation: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc View Post
Yeah, I agree with you. I saw her on the "Today" show, and she is "fighting to save traditional marriage."

Save it from what?? All the gays that will destroy marriage? Are they gonna make the divorce rate go up to 50%. Oh wait, it already is.

She's on a religious crusade, and the more she speaks, the dumber she sounds. It is becoming apparent to the majority of the American public that the fight against gay marriage is strictly being held within the confines of the fundamentalist Baptist, Catholic, and Mormon-type people. Those that think marriage is a religious institution and all....

Anyway, let her keep talking, she'll unravel soon enough....
Exactly, she is the real bigot that these rightwingers can't understand because there reasoning pathways are bigoted to begin with so they can only see where their toes are being stepped on when disagreed with or criticized.

AS if anyone is forcing her to be gay. this is about people's choices to marry whether they are heterosexual or gay. she is the bigot for 'trying to save the traditional marriage.' it's none of her damn business as long as it doesn't affect other people or society negatively and they are both adults and no one is being abused or set up for abuse. being gay is not like wanting to have sex with children with unequal power disparity and open for manipulation and exploitation. considering as many heterosexual people are perverts and abusers, bad spouses and parents, people like her disgust me.

AS if someone is knocking down her door preaching to her that she should enter gay marriage or that she shouldn't be heterosexual. pfft
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