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I'm a patriot and proud of the Finnish culture, but I also realize that most of it is imported. It could be great if Finland would be a superpower that invented everything it has, but sadly it's not true.
Do you notice any cultural differences between eastern and Western Finns?
I personally do not really see Finland as been part of Scandinavia. It has lots of common points as a nordic country, and had Swedish domination history, and Swedish minorities, but I'm not sure it is enough to condider it as been 'Scandinavian' as a whole.
Denmark, Norway and Sweden got something in common (language, constitutional monarchy). As a Norwegian I feel little connection with Finland or Iceland. The whole Nordic concept is pretty much dead.
I'm glad you brought this up. My impression of that whole post was that hemberg is trying to create artificial differences between the two groups. I'm sure there are differences, but most of his examples don't hold up.
BTW, doesn't "Hemberg" seem like an odd name for someone to be claiming to be very Finnish?
Again, I don't claim my facts to be scientific knowledge. They are based on my observations and the most common stereotypes. Stereotypes have their roots in truth most of the time.
I don't really feel like you should care about my last name but did you know that there were no last names in Finland before the Swedes came? I have ancestors in Sweden, like most Western-Finns do, but I am 94% Finnish by my blood. There are Finns with no Swedish blood at all that have Swedish last names, because all last names were Swedish at one point, but not all were translated into Finnish in the nationalistic period. Therefore I am a native Finn. Is there something more you want to know about me? If not, I would appreciate if you could spend more time explaining why you got such an impression of my post, and less time on things that are not relevant.
Do you notice any cultural differences between eastern and Western Finns?
Not really anymore. That might've been the case 100 years ago, but people are so mobile these days that there's mostly just "mainstream" Finnish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmptrwlt
Denmark, Norway and Sweden got something in common (language, constitutional monarchy). As a Norwegian I feel little connection with Finland or Iceland. The whole Nordic concept is pretty much dead.
The easiest way to get a culture shock is going to a grocery store in a foreign county. You won't get one in Finland. That's mostly what I'm talking about. Similar culture and lifestyle despite not having a personal connection.
The Nordic concept is maybe dead, but I'm still entitled to Norwegian welfare the second I move there.
Denmark, Norway and Sweden got something in common (language, constitutional monarchy). As a Norwegian I feel little connection with Finland or Iceland. The whole Nordic concept is pretty much dead.
This is the point I am very desperately trying to make. Finland and Scandinavia have connections, I don't argue with that. However, Finland and Sweden are not connected in a similar way as f.ex Sweden and Norway. We are connected because of historical connections in the last 1000 years, because of modern things like high standard of living, and because of geography, but Finland and Scandinavia are not brothers, nor are we cousins, but we are close family friends.
If my posts irritate, I apologize. I do not have any sort of emotions to Scandinavian countries, positive or negative. I don't claim to be an expert in genes or history, but I know enough to argue about it. My analyzation of my culture is based on my experience, and does not have to match your opinion for.
I'm a patriot and proud of the Finnish culture, but I also realize that most of it is imported. It could be great if Finland would be a superpower that invented everything it has, but sadly it's not true.
How is culture imported?
Cultures take influence. I don't think you are much of a patriot if you think Finnish culture is not unique. What about Sauna, Salmiakki, Mämmi, Lonkero, Kantele, Kalevala-runomitta or pesäpallo? Where were these imported from? Every culture is unique and claiming that our culture is imported in outrageous. I don't really understand your last sentence, culture is not just invented.
Going to a grocery store in Finland is not shocking for a scandinavian. I think this is just because we are both Western cultures. I don't think you would be shocked in f.ex England.
Alright.
I think the difference between the two cultures are pretty obvious when you look at the traditional literature. The Scandinavian Viking Sagas have nothing in common with the Finnish national epic, Kalevala. Kalevala is however similar to the epic of Estonians, Kalevipoeg. Pre-Christian religions were also very different. In Sweden the Viking religions, in Finland the traditional native religion. Language is the base of human culture, and as comparing these languages is like comparing English and Chinese, one can easily say that these cultures come from very different historical backgrounds.
Modern culture in these countries is also very different, although there are similarities too. These are just some things I personally have noticed, but they do represent the most common viewpoint in differences of Finland and Sweden, at least in Finland.
Finns are more quiet, more family-oriented, more shy, more humble, sometimes unsocial, melancholic. Swedes are more social, smile more, are more outgoing, are more emotional (or show it more), Swedish drink less and the most popular drink in sweden according to statistics is Wine. Swedish products are world known for branding, and that goes to show that Swedish people are more proud/arrogant, but in a good way too. Swedish music is more joyful in general. Swedes are more open-minded, and f.ex over 10% of their people are immigrants not born in Sweden.
OK. Your description of Finns, underlined, sounds like everything I've ever heard and read (and observed) about Swedes. Conversely, your description of Swedes sounds either like fantasy, or like perhaps a minute difference you've observed that you're trying to exaggerate into a significant difference.
You've failed to demonstrate how the Finnish indigenous religion differs from the Viking one. They had very similar gods. Please feel free to explain where the differences lie.
The differences between choices of alcoholic beverage also sound like an attempt to draw an artificial line between the two populations, but maybe that's my outsider's perspective. Who drinks more than whom really isn't a competition Swedes and Finns want to have, is it?
Personally, I'd expect there to be cultural differences between the two nations, due to the Finno-Ugric input into Finland and its absence in Sweden, but your examples aren't convincing. So I don't know what to think. There must be some better examples someone can offer.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 02-14-2014 at 03:09 PM..
OK. Your description of Finns, underlined, sounds like everything I've ever heard and read about Swedes. Conversely, your description of Swedes sounds either like fantasy, or like perhaps a minute difference that you're trying to exaggerate into a significant difference.
You've failed to demonstrate how the Finnish indigenous religion differs from the Viking one. They had very similar gods. Please feel free to explain where the differences lie.
The differences between choices of alcoholic beverage also sound like an attempt to draw an artificial line between the two populations, but maybe that's my outsider's perspective. Who drinks more than whom really isn't a competition Swedes and Finns want to have, is it?
Personally, I'd expect there to be cultural differences between the two nations, due to the Finno-Ugric input into Finland and its absence in Sweden, but your examples aren't convincing. So I don't know what to think. There must be some better examples someone can offer.
If you insist, I will expand on the religion part. I am not very keen on doing so, because it is questionable what is true and what is invented. The problem is that so often the native Finnish religion is looked as similarly to other religions. The people who researched it in the nationalistic period assumed that it was a system of Gods, just like the ancient religions of Greece and Rome. The Finns had sacred symbols and animals, but it is questionable can the spirits and "Haltija" be considered Gods. The religion in Finland was more animalistic and less systematically organized than in Scandinavia.
Edit: The Gods were not similar at all, and the idea of a God was also different in Finland and Scandinavia. Finns did not have a significant mythology of Gods, and they were seen as spirits and something more abstract than Viking Gods. Do not focus on the names of the Gods and what they were Gods of, because that is not what the faith was about.
If you insist, I will expand on the religion part. I am not very keen on doing so, because it is questionable what is true and what is invented. The problem is that so often the native Finnish religion is looked as similarly to other religions. The people who researched it in the nationalistic period assumed that it was a system of Gods, just like the ancient religions of Greece and Rome. The Finns had sacred symbols and animals, but it is questionable can the spirits and "Haltija" be considered Gods. The religion in Finland was more animalistic and less systematically organized than in Scandinavia.
I see what you mean; there's a lot more to it than the first part about the gods.
Some of the Haltija tradition sounds like ancient Indo-European home/hearth/nature spirits, but some of it, and the beliefs relating to the "soul", sound like beliefs common to Native peoples in Siberia and Alaska. Also, the bear cult seems to come from north Asian peoples via Finns' Uralic connection.
So the religion seems to be a blending of Indo-European and Uralic/north Asian tradition.
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