American moving to Sweden (pay, live, time, life)

[Grim Reader]

Originally Posted by City of Rain

As for racism I can tell you that in Sweden and Norway you will NEVER be exposed to open racism. We keep voting for parties who take in lots of immigrants (Stockholm consists of 37,5% immigrants and Malmö of 40%. In comparison about 36% of NYCs population were born abroad). Obviously Americans are ethnically diverse themselves, so you'll still see more non-whites in NYC than in Sweden..

Also, being a black woman I suppose you have many black friends.. In Scandinavia, you should remember that the black people there are Africans.. So though it might feel natural to you to walk up to then and think you'll have more in common with them than in whites, this won't be the case. Surely, many blacks in Scandinavia were born here and have a very western mindset, but chances are you'll fit in better with whites.

Remember that immigrants in Sweden cause a lot of trouble.. They're extremely overrepresentated in crime statistics and many also live on welfare.. So naturally many swedes do not have too warm feelings for immigrants.. This said, Scandinavia is probably the most tolerant place in Europe and as long as you act properly race won't matter to most people be aware that being black you might be judged at first, but once they find out you're cool/American there won't be any problems!

City of Rain touches on an imporant point here: You will probably not face racism based on your skin color. You may however, face a hostility to refugees. Many Scandinavians have negative feelings towards refugees. (Which is different form hostility to immigrants, if you follow) And skin color can be used as a visual shortcut to pegging people as refugees. Unlike with actuall racism, which you would be stuck with, you should not have any problems from people who learn that you are from the USA, and not a refugee.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Originally Posted by NJare

The climate of Sweden (except between June - Aug) SUCK!
It's rainy, cold and disgusting! Even during summer, it's not always nice weather.
Winter time is very dark, and no sun at all.

Sweden geographically is along the same latitude as Alaska. So, yes, compared to 49 of the states, winter is very dark and summer is very bright. That is the hardest adjustment for most Americans. Typically, however, Sweden does not have as harsh a climate then Alaska. For comparison sake, I think Southern Sweden has a similar climate to NYC. Middle Sweden including Stockholm is more like the climate of New England with less snow generally. Northern Sweden will have more snow and cold. Swedes in general prefer snow as winter can be rainy and gray with little sun due to the lack of too much daylight hours.

[diablogun]

Originally Posted by DreamingSpires

Don't even get me started on the Unions, immigration, and the state employees in the US.

I'm actually an independent but when I lived in America I leaned heavily to the Right. Not because I am a classic conservative (in the Barry Goldwater sense), but simply because I couldn't stand the hypocritical posturing of the American left. The Right were like a breath of fresh air. At least you knew (kind of) what you were getting.

I don't know how to solve the Left-Right conunundrum in America. As I stated earlier, I think the problem is cultural and may also be demographic. Regardless, it is VERY deep rooted, something Pelosi, et al just DO NOT get. It may very well be the case that the country is just TOO BIG to govern in any kind of reasonable way.

Getting back to the topic--I do think the Scandanavian countries have a heckuva lot of things right. The "homogenuousness" is not at the core a "racial" thing in my view--rather, it is cultural. I think the OP will love the lifestyle there once she gets stuck in, and will find the lack of American-style racism to be a breath of fresh air.

The only thing Americans seem to be able to agree in is that they are all individualists (LOL). I like America a lot--love it, even. But I do feel that it is on the decline, for all the reasons Tocqueville cited almost 200 years ago. And I fear that, as the saying goes, "Without America there is no Free World."

Your views are quite articulate and a pleasure to read. I think, like yourself, that there is a huge divide in opinion in America, and the only way it can be addressed is to follow the constitutional remedy of devolving power to the states. If one is inclined to live in a highly regulated state such as CA, then this devolution of power would facilitate different views being accommodated next to alternative views--such as living in free-wheeling Texas or Wyoming. It is the only way there will be any harmony, because as you have made reference to, imposing solutions from the federal side only breeds animosity amongst the governed.

And again, I agree with you about the homogeneous nature of Swedish governance. I can't remember a Swede who I have discussed politics with that did not posit the same set of beliefs concerning social justice, the death penalty, health care, etc. I can see at times they fall victim to "group-think", but on the whole they do well from having a consensus on many issues. At least they are reading from the same book, whereas in the U.S. the book is usually not even in the same language.

[DreamingSpires]

Originally Posted by DreamingSpires

Don't even get me started on the Unions, immigration, and the state employees in the US.

I'm actually an independent but when I lived in America I leaned heavily to the Right. Not because I am a classic conservative (in the Barry Goldwater sense), but simply because I couldn't stand the hypocritical posturing of the American left. The Right were like a breath of fresh air. At least you knew (kind of) what you were getting.

I don't know how to solve the Left-Right conunundrum in America. As I stated earlier, I think the problem is cultural and may also be demographic. Regardless, it is VERY deep rooted, something Pelosi, et al just DO NOT get. It may very well be the case that the country is just TOO BIG to govern in any kind of reasonable way.

Getting back to the topic--I do think the Scandanavian countries have a heckuva lot of things right. The "homogenuousness" is not at the core a "racial" thing in my view--rather, it is cultural. I think the OP will love the lifestyle there once she gets stuck in, and will find the lack of American-style racism to be a breath of fresh air.

The only thing Americans seem to be able to agree in is that they are all individualists (LOL). I like America a lot--love it, even. But I do feel that it is on the decline, for all the reasons Tocqueville cited almost 200 years ago. And I fear that, as the saying goes, "Without America there is no Free World."

I think I am going to respond to you by starting a new thread. I don't want to risk this conversation getting deleted by the mods as OT. I will start it in this forum instead of the political forum, because we are discussing something larger than politics, and that is "culture."

I am going to call the thread (for lack of a better term): "Social Europe" vs. "American Individualism." Obviously it is meant to encompass anything we have been discussing.

[eskimoblueday]

I haven't lived in Sweden but I did in Denmark which in many aspects is very similar. I moved there for grad school and think it's one of the easiest ways to proceed. The information about international study programs can be found on university websites and the only thing left is to follow the instructions. The schools usually offer quite generous stipends. People who stayed after finishing their studies usually did so through finding a partner but it's not the only possibility. Objectively, Scandinavia is an awesome place to live (fantastic social benefits, not matched by any other region in the world, lot of space, and the climate which some people might view as harsh, is just million times better than what I know from NYC where I live now (DK: high 60s/low 70s in summer, 30s in winter, and the rain is imo quite bearable)). The only thing left is whether you integrate easily into a different and very homogeneous culture. I would recommend checking the deadlines for grad school applications, or even searching for short-term possibilities like one year or a semester at the local school. And good luck!

[jon1987]

Originally Posted by DreamingSpires

It sounds like you have lived in Europe or at least spent time here.

I have often told Americans that social democracy could NEVER work in America unless there was massive cultural change first. The size and diversity, as well as that good old intangible "American Individualism," all mitigate against it.

This is one of the reasons I cannot support the American Left. They are trying to impose change from the top-down and that will never, ever work. (I supported Ron Paul in the last election, even though I am a "leftist" technically speaking). There is a reason it is called social DEMOCRACY, not "socialism." LOL.

I know this an old post, but I think it hits the nail on the head as why a European/Scandinavian social welfare model would not work in the US. Despite out differences, I'd love t spend some time living over there.

[TheDanishGuy]

Originally Posted by Doobage

Thanks for the response diablogun!
Is there anything specific about my nationality that would make immigration difficult?
I'm a very shy person myself so I think a place where reserved personalities rule is perfect! I forgot to ask also, how are race relations in general? I've heard both good and bad things. I'm a black lady, parents from West Africa. Are Scandinavians educated on race and welcoming of different people?
I've been trying to find a job, but it's so hard doing it overseas! I have credentials that are fantastic over here, but I don't know about over there. At the same time I'm nervous about moving without having secured a job first--I wouldn't even do that here in the States.

I dont think you have to worry about being a black person in Sweden. Especially in the big cities like Gothenburg, Malmø and Stockholm. Out on the country side people "might" stare but it's not meant as evil. More like surprised and maybe curious lol

[Sweden]

Originally Posted by TheDanishGuy

I dont think you have to worry about being a black person in Sweden. Especially in the big cities like Gothenburg, Malmø and Stockholm. Out on the country side people "might" stare but it's not meant as evil. More like surprised and maybe curious lol

People on the countryside go to the cities and watch TV alot, so it's not like we ("they" now, I guess it has become for me) react as if it's the first "not-like-us" people see. More like:

Person 1: "Hey, Oskar, see that guy over there?"
Person 2: "You mean that dark guy?"
Person 1: "Yeah. When did he move here?"
Person 2: "I think he moved into old Frida's house."
Person 1: "Frida moved?"
Person 2. "Yeah, she moved to Skåne to be with her grandchildren. Last fall I think Gunilla told me when we met at ICA last Sunday."
Person 1: "You saw Gunilla? She still owes me that recipe for those chocolate cookies ..."
...

etc.

I grew up in a village/network of villages in southern Sweden. This is how we handle it.

(And in Sweden you're "dark", not black, btw.)

[BigSwede]

There are lots of african immigrants in my hometown of 20000,so it is not that uncommon.

[scottfreez]

Sweden is fantastic. Swedish people.. they are wonderful. I like the way the women/men balance is so close but yet the women also retain 100% of their femininity, it's really a great culture... Plus Sweden has some of the best films around! Oh yeah, and the food... The best cakes ever - they are big and natural-looking, not all perfect but tasteless like in Germany ... oh and this amazing Swedish licorice ice cream...

Was in Goteborg visiting my friend and she took me to this open zoo. A lovely park with woods and hills, and tons of animals just like a zoo, but it was free of entry and completely non-commercial, and you can just go in any time and it's all good.. The animals lived first-class... I haven't seen anything like that.

She couldn't understand how America was/is on the verge of closing national parks down due to lack of funding. I decided it wasn't worth explaining in any great detail.

Sweden really has a lot figured out.