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Old 08-21-2017, 04:45 PM
 
12 posts, read 10,843 times
Reputation: 15

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Quote:
Originally Posted by admp View Post
You are the funniest guy on this forum. When you write something it is an absolute truth but when other user writes and shows you a different perspective, it turns out to be fake. If someone has any kind of complex that one is you. You think that I bother when you say Portuguese are the 2nd darkest in Europe? I don't care if we are the 2nd darkest or the 2nd blondest. On opposite, you underline this point with huge importance. Ask an Englishman, German, Polish or Swedish if they see any difference between a Spanish or a Portuguese. For sure they will say no. My wife has Spanish family, my grandmother lived almost 20 years in Madrid and I already visited Spain at least 20 times. So I know very well my neighbours.
Just to finish this conversation the percentage of blond hair people in the north of Portugal is almost 13% and this is explained due to waves of Celts, Suebi and Visigoths and between 5 to 7% in the South.
I posted the percentages of various trustworthy maps of genetics (Haplogrups) and you just deny it while posting fake data, as that one with the % of blondes which you posted is completely fake.

So I can ask myself? I am a Swede and I can see a difference between most Spaniards and Portuguese people. As Neuling said, which is from Portugal too, probably 1 out of 25 Portuguese people are blonde.

Not true, Visigoths never arrived to the north of Portugal, just to the south while they settled in most of Spain except for Galicia and some small parts near the NW. Just search Visigoths in Google and see it by yourself. Still, Visigoths were not blonde. Most Spaniards have the R1b haplogrup (76%) and they resemble as Visigoths resembled 10 centuries ago. Visigoths were not blonde or with fair eyes. Visigoths were white (not nordic white) with brown hair and eyes, just like most Spaniards. Nowadays they're more tanned as Iberia has a stronger sun, but Portugal still has much more Jewish and North African admixture which can be clearly seen in the locals. That's why the prevalence of blonde hair or fair eyes is smaller than everywhere else in Europe except for Cyprus, even less than Sicily.
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Old 08-21-2017, 05:10 PM
AFP
 
7,412 posts, read 6,817,785 times
Reputation: 6627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klpton View Post
I posted the percentages of various trustworthy maps of genetics (Haplogrups) and you just deny it while posting fake data, as that one with the % of blondes which you posted is completely fake.

So I can ask myself? I am a Swede and I can see a difference between most Spaniards and Portuguese people. As Neuling said, which is from Portugal too, probably 1 out of 25 Portuguese people are blonde.

Not true, Visigoths never arrived to the north of Portugal, just to the south while they settled in most of Spain except for Galicia and some small parts near the NW. Just search Visigoths in Google and see it by yourself. Still, Visigoths were not blonde. Most Spaniards have the R1b haplogrup (76%) and they resemble as Visigoths resembled 10 centuries ago. Visigoths were not blonde or with fair eyes. Visigoths were white (not nordic white) with brown hair and eyes, just like most Spaniards. Nowadays they're more tanned as Iberia has a stronger sun, but Portugal still has much more Jewish and North African admixture which can be clearly seen in the locals. That's why the prevalence of blonde hair or fair eyes is smaller than everywhere else in Europe except for Cyprus, even less than Sicily.
You sound so ignorant to tell the truth you the if you had a picture of a crowd of 100 Spaniards from the different regions and a crowd of 100 Portuguese from the different regions and they were dressed the same you would have trouble identifying which crowd is which.


We had many blonde threads in the past and I hope you aren't planning on reviving more of that stupidity.


A totally ignorant statement I'm guessing you were there 10 centuries ago to know what Visigoths looked like. The Visigoths contributed a minor amount of DNA to the Spaniards as did the Suebi.


You keep mentioning that the Portuguese have less blonde hair due to being mixed with North African and Jewish. Although the Portuguese overall do have a higher mixture than Spain but some regions of Spain are actually higher than Portugal overall. But you have mentioned a couple of times this already like it's something negative and I'm suspicious that you are one of those that values certain traits above others.


Fair warning if I get confirmation that you mention anything degrading on here I will dissect your posts to pieces and make you look really asinine.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:46 PM
 
12 posts, read 10,843 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
You sound so ignorant to tell the truth you the if you had a picture of a crowd of 100 Spaniards from the different regions and a crowd of 100 Portuguese from the different regions and they were dressed the same you would have trouble identifying which crowd is which.


We had many blonde threads in the past and I hope you aren't planning on reviving more of that stupidity.


A totally ignorant statement I'm guessing you were there 10 centuries ago to know what Visigoths looked like. The Visigoths contributed a minor amount of DNA to the Spaniards as did the Suebi.


You keep mentioning that the Portuguese have less blonde hair due to being mixed with North African and Jewish. Although the Portuguese overall do have a higher mixture than Spain but some regions of Spain are actually higher than Portugal overall. But you have mentioned a couple of times this already like it's something negative and I'm suspicious that you are one of those that values certain traits above others.


Fair warning if I get confirmation that you mention anything degrading on here I will dissect your posts to pieces and make you look really asinine.
Keep trying to convince yourself, but you still won't be able to change the reality and the facts.

The best of all is how ultradefensive and in constant denial you are and you even think that you're proving someone wrong while denying facts. You're just ashaming yourself, everything which I said is true: Portuguese people have the least prevalence of blonde hair or fair eyes in Europe after Cyprus and they're also the 2nd darkest Europeans, everyone knows this fact. Not sure why do you have such a huge complex as well as admp, it's because of the high percentage of non European admixture on Portugal? We are all humans...

Ok then, be happy in your alternative reality while "dissecting my posts". Portuguese are Nordic descendants, ok?
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:24 PM
AFP
 
7,412 posts, read 6,817,785 times
Reputation: 6627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klpton View Post
Keep trying to convince yourself, but you still won't be able to change the reality and the facts.

The best of all is how ultradefensive and in constant denial you are and you even think that you're proving someone wrong while denying facts. You're just ashaming yourself, everything which I said is true: Portuguese people have the least prevalence of blonde hair or fair eyes in Europe after Cyprus and they're also the 2nd darkest Europeans, everyone knows this fact. Not sure why do you have such a huge complex as well as admp, it's because of the high percentage of non European admixture on Portugal? We are all humans...

Ok then, be happy in your alternative reality while "dissecting my posts". Portuguese are Nordic descendants, ok?
Read posts #516 and #519 again You have posted some incorrect information and you shouldn't be surprised that I responded and corrected it.

I didn't respond to your blonde hair and light eyes comment.

Refer to my previous posts my problem with the information you posted is clear.

Nope I doubt I have many Nordic descendants and am comfortable with my non-European admixture I just don't like it when people post wrong information about my ethnic group.
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Old 08-21-2017, 10:20 PM
 
630 posts, read 518,514 times
Reputation: 986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klpton View Post
Keep trying to convince yourself, but you still won't be able to change the reality and the facts.
1/The facts are that haplogroups aren't phenotype predictors.
2/Skin color changes according to sun exposure.
3/Spaniards clearly look like Vikings, everyone knows that

This thread is going out of hand like, alas, too often on this site at the hands of some posters unhappy with their lives.
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Old 08-21-2017, 10:59 PM
 
12 posts, read 10,843 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_stick View Post
1/The facts are that haplogroups aren't phenotype predictors.
2/Skin color changes according to sun exposure.
3/Spaniards clearly look like Vikings, everyone knows that

This thread is going out of hand like, alas, too often on this site at the hands of some posters unhappy with their lives.
Don't use my irony and my phrases.
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Old 08-21-2017, 11:01 PM
 
12 posts, read 10,843 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
Read posts #516 and #519 again You have posted some incorrect information and you shouldn't be surprised that I responded and corrected it.

I didn't respond to your blonde hair and light eyes comment.

Refer to my previous posts my problem with the information you posted is clear.

Nope I doubt I have many Nordic descendants and am comfortable with my non-European admixture I just don't like it when people post wrong information about my ethnic group.
Ok sorry I mistaken your posts with the ones of admp!
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:38 AM
 
1 posts, read 902 times
Reputation: 15
Wouldn't it be nice, if people could just discuss genetics without any kind of weird agenda or populist "Reinheitsgedanken" in their minds? A people doens't have to be pure blood anything - specially because genetically speaking, purity is neither reachable nor desirable. (why would someone deliberately miss out on some nice good resistant genes from some other people, just because they look different, and are either too dark or too small or whatever)
We're all the result of some dumb mistakes or great great great great parents made.. if they only had used protection back then

As a Portuguese living abroad, I do have to say that sometimes one can easily recognise a fellow Portuguese citizen, barely based on their facial traits. Of course this might also have something to do with "memory" or what appears to be memory. You recognise something similar in someone else's face and you're automatically taken "back in time" and associate that face with someone similar you once met back "home".

The Jewish influence is also true and somewhat present, although it's extent is still debatable.

What isn't debatable nevertheless is the genetic footprint left by the Romans, by the Celtic and Pre-Celtic peoples that inhabited the Peninsula, by the Suebin, the Visigoths and some others more, the Arabs and most recently, due to historical reasons (colonialism), also Black Africans. Those peoples really did form, what we now have come to know and perceive as Portuguese or/ and Spanish People.

It would be silly to think, that after so many centuries "living separate lives", Portugal and Spain would have been able to retain exactly the same genetic traits. That's almost impossible. But (and this a really big but), it would likely be just as silly to believe Portuguese and Spaniards are genetically so far apart from each other. Seriously, they aren't. Neither genetically nor culturally (even though both sides, and particularly the Portuguese - there, I said it - like to emphasise the contrary).

We have our differences, but we also have so much in common.
And not only we - having spent almost all of my life "around Europe", I really must say that we do have more in common that what we'd actually believe. It's amazing and rather interesting.

As I traveled through Sweden, two years ago, I was so astonished with the similarities between some Swedish words and some Swissgerman words (my "first language") like Verktyg - we say Werkzüg in Switzerland, and not Werkzeug, like in Standard German, or igång - we say Igang (with a long I and closed a, almost resembling a o, but not as strongly as the å) instead of German Eingang.
And I know, language isn't genetics - but it can actually give us some clues to where our ancestors were "hanging around" spreading "them languages" and to whom

I really love genetics. It's the historian and linguist in me. Please, don't go all racist and spoil it for me and for the rest of us who aren't that much into Eugenics. Just stay fair and reasonable.

Ps.: I can't confirm the exact number of people who have blond/ red/ light hair and a lighter hair colour in Portugal, but they're definitely more than just 1 in every 25th.. Alone in my direct family (grandparents, their kids and their offspring - I'm not counting 2nd cousins or those who married into the family, otherwise the number would be much larger), 11 out of 27 have either lighter hair/ eyes or both. 2 of them have red hair, 6 have blonde hair, 4 have green eyes and two blue eyes. And there is direct African ascendance in both sides of my family, as Basque and Spanish.

I hope you don't find my post too boring or too long. And sorry, if there are any ugly grammatical or lexical mistakes - in my defense, had I written it in German (or Portuguese or Spanish), I'd have probably had the chance to express myself a little more concisely and cohesively. I hope you get the point though

cheers
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Old 03-30-2018, 08:36 AM
 
432 posts, read 400,892 times
Reputation: 279
Don't be afraid to discuss races and differences in a polite way. There is nothing wrong with it just like there is nothing wrong discussing different sorts of fruits, plants or planets. Only those get insulted who feel inferior themselves in some way, depressed, angry and vulnerable. Which can be fixed by getting a better quality life by acquiring a hobby or reading more books.
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:02 AM
AFP
 
7,412 posts, read 6,817,785 times
Reputation: 6627
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtocolumbia View Post
Don't be afraid to discuss races and differences in a polite way. There is nothing wrong with it just like there is nothing wrong discussing different sorts of fruits, plants or planets. Only those get insulted who feel inferior themselves in some way, depressed, angry and vulnerable. Which can be fixed by getting a better quality life by acquiring a hobby or reading more books.
Nope there is nothing wrong with discussing the differences and similarities of the people of Spain and Portugal as long as the information is correct.
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