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Old 09-15-2010, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Macao
13,013 posts, read 19,886,523 times
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Italy: I was just thinking, throughout the forum, people seem interested in living in Germany, France, Spain, etc....but Italy doesn't seem to get mentioned much. Seems like one of the more interesting countries in Europe though.

Why or why wouldn't a person be interested in Italy for expat living...just curious...
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Old 09-15-2010, 02:53 PM
 
634 posts, read 773,870 times
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I dont want to make somebody upset, but:

Italy is having the most culture in europe, maybe too much for americans. Many americans are shocked by all the culture in germany, when they see houses and castles, built in year 12XX or 13xx....

In Italy you will not find a cheescake or key lime pie on a dessert menu :-) so why should an american go there? i went to so much italian restaurants in america but i was dissapointed very often. They`re asking for cake and pizza but don`t really know, what italian cusine really is...

I am also very amused when i read, that people from other continents are making an "europe round trip in 7 days". LOOOOL. Thats not nearly possible....

When i read some threads here, i can not understand, why people that have never been before to europe, want to make vacations in Poland, Czech republik or other crazy areas... tssss...

You need at least 4-5 days in Rome! only to see a little part of the city...

Melanie
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Old 09-15-2010, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Minnesota, USA
7,545 posts, read 8,287,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelanieGermany View Post
In Italy you will not find a cheescake or key lime pie on a dessert menu :-) so why should an american go there? i went to so much italian restaurants in america but i was dissapointed very often. They`re asking for cake and pizza but don`t really know, what italian cusine really is...
Melanie
Most "Italian" restaurants in the U.S. are either low-quality chains (e.g. Olive Garden) or family-run homestyle Italian-American restaurants. In addition, "Italian" food differs greatly across regions. Tyrolese cuisine is probably closer to Bavarian food than Sicilian or Neapolitan cuisine. In some large U.S. cities you can find "authentic" regional Italian restaurants. You just have to look.
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Old 09-15-2010, 11:35 PM
 
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Germany and France have a much better economy than Italy. Spain used to. Also Italy has much more red tape than the other countries.
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Macao
13,013 posts, read 19,886,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelanieGermany View Post
I am also very amused when i read, that people from other continents are making an "europe round trip in 7 days". LOOOOL. Thats not nearly possible....
I can relate to that. Not only Europe, but people also try to see 'America' in 4-5 days. I ask them their itinerary and you'll readily see WALT DISNEY topping their list.

I think it's not just Americans going to Europe who lack culture...but the entire world sometimes.

I would actually make an argument that most Americans GO to Europe for the culture...whereas most people visiting 'America' or the USA, seem to bypass the culture altogether and go directly to the hokey parts - Vegas, Grand Canyon, Disneyland seems to top most people's list...the first two are unique enough...but I NEVER understand the worldwide Disney interests.

----

Anyways, back to Italy.

Califantastic makes a good point. The RED TAPE. I think living/working is just not easy to do in Italy compared to other European countries.

I also flew on a budget airline company just for the weekend - from Valencia Spain to Rome and back. The Italian airline company WENT OUT OF BUSINESS over the weekend. But we all know it was well-planned, and they wanted to sell whatever tickets they could, and abandon whoever regardless. I was stuck in Rome on Sunday night with 80 other passengers, all trying to get back to Valencia. It gave me a small taste of what people in Italy must deal with on a regular basis.

Nontheless, Italy still seems quite interesting, and I have (as most people do), really enjoyed the two visits I've made there.

As much as I like Italian people, I do wonder if a person was there 'long-term', if they would become more endearing or less endearing as well.
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Chicago
36,588 posts, read 57,867,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Italy: I was just thinking, throughout the forum, people seem interested in living in Germany, France, Spain, etc....but Italy doesn't seem to get mentioned much. Seems like one of the more interesting countries in Europe though.

Why or why wouldn't a person be interested in Italy for expat living...just curious...
Partly because Italy is a borderline third-world country. If rustic is your gig and you don't need to find work, Italy's got what you need. If a more modern lifestyle is your speed and you want better employment oppertounities, northern/western Europe is a better bet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelanieGermany View Post
I am also very amused when i read, that people from other continents are making an "europe round trip in 7 days". LOOOOL. Thats not nearly possible....
I bet it's almost as amusing as Europeans thinking they can drive from New York to Florida to Texas to San Francisco and back in a week. Which I suppose is technically possible, provided you intend to drive the entire time and not ever get out of your car to see anything, or stop to sleep for that matter.
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:34 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
3,854 posts, read 6,118,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Italy: I was just thinking, throughout the forum, people seem interested in living in Germany, France, Spain, etc....but Italy doesn't seem to get mentioned much. Seems like one of the more interesting countries in Europe though.

Why or why wouldn't a person be interested in Italy for expat living...just curious...
For various reasons based on social and economic relationships, for years German, France and Spanish have been the mainstays of whatever foreign language choices that most US students have.

Germany has been among the top three economic powerhouses for decades, Spanish-speakers far outnumber Italian speakers, especially in the Americas, and, unlike Greeks, Jews and French, for example, the Italian ruling classes of the late 19th and 20th Centuries did not give a hoot about their "diaspora" or maintaining or promoting Italian education and culture abroad.

Italy is further afield and requires a more searched effort. It is a complicated society whose ties extend to western Europe, central and eastern Europe, the western Mediterranean, the eastern Mediterranean, and South America in ways that are unique compared to other European countries.

For those who do venture, Italy is great for the student.

Italy is horrible for a young person seeking a professional career or entrepreneur without capital and good social and political connections (see red tape, taxes, etc.).

Italy may be good for a wealthy retiree with a deep interest in history and culture.

Therefore, most students are not that venturous, an outsider would spend his productive years there only if he is a masochist, and, finally, relatively few make it to their retirement years with the level of wealth necessary to live well in Italy and pursue any deep interest in history and culture.

Hope this helps.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Macao
13,013 posts, read 19,886,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
For various reasons based on social and economic relationships, for years German, France and Spanish have been the mainstays of whatever foreign language choices that most US students have.

Germany has been among the top three economic powerhouses for decades, Spanish-speakers far outnumber Italian speakers, especially in the Americas, and, unlike Greeks, Jews and French, for example, the Italian ruling classes of the late 19th and 20th Centuries did not give a hoot about their "diaspora" or maintaining or promoting Italian education and culture abroad.

Italy is further afield and requires a more searched effort. It is a complicated society whose ties extend to western Europe, central and eastern Europe, the western Mediterranean, the eastern Mediterranean, and South America in ways that are unique compared to other European countries.

For those who do venture, Italy is great for the student.

Italy is horrible for a young person seeking a professional career or entrepreneur without capital and good social and political connections (see red tape, taxes, etc.).

Italy may be good for a wealthy retiree with a deep interest in history and culture.

Therefore, most students are not that venturous, an outsider would spend his productive years there only if he is a masochist, and, finally, relatively few make it to their retirement years with the level of wealth necessary to live well in Italy and pursue any deep interest in history and culture.

Hope this helps.
I wanted to give you REP points for that, but it said I must spread it around first.

Hmm...I don't give REP points very often at all...so your insight must be routinely pretty good stuff!
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Old 09-16-2010, 01:02 PM
Status: "ERROR: user not found" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: Albuquerque
7,041 posts, read 7,230,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelanieGermany View Post

Italy is having the most culture in europe, maybe too much for americans. Many americans are shocked by all the culture in germany, when they see houses and castles, built in year 12XX or 13xx....
That has to be one of the most condescending and inaccurate things I have ever read on the city-data forums short of the occasional racist or sexist diatribe!

By the same token I could say that Europeans should not visit Egypt because their minds will be ill-equipped to comprehend the age of the Pyramids.

Americans don't have the mental constitution to appreciate Italy, tssss. Dumbest thing I have heard in a long while.
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,082 posts, read 1,294,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Italy: I was just thinking, throughout the forum, people seem interested in living in Germany, France, Spain, etc....but Italy doesn't seem to get mentioned much. Seems like one of the more interesting countries in Europe though.

Why or why wouldn't a person be interested in Italy for expat living...just curious...
My wife and I went to Italy a few years ago and loved it. We were thinking about it as a possible retirement destination when the time comes, but it doesn't seem likely due to the cost of living in the urban areas. A place out in the Italian countryside (where it's less expensive, except maybe in Tuscany) seemed romantic, but we prefer living closer to a city. But here are some observations I've heard from other people:

One of my coworkers is from southern Italy, which is heavily agricultural. He moved to northern Italy when he left home, because he prefers a more urban lifestyle. What frustrated him was that, no matter how hard he worked at his jobs, promotions went to relatives and old friends of the people who owned the businesses. His bosses were apologetic but open about it: "Hey, the guy's family. What can I do?" So he lived in a couple of other European countries, and eventually went to grad school and got a job here in the US. After living here for several years, he says he'd never move back to Italy during his working years, although he might when he retires. But some urban American friends of his moved to a rural area of Italy a couple years ago, and they love it. I don't know what they do for a living, or if they're retired.

Another American I know vacationed annually in Italy for 20 years. She then started living in Florence part time, leased an apartment, and eventually found work in a retail store. A few years ago, she moved there permanently. I lost contact with her, so I don't know how she's doing.

So what I've heard is that, if you go to Italy to live and work as an expat, it's very difficult to find work (especially if you're not an EU citizen). If you don't need to work, the main drawback is the bureaucratic red tape -- but that seems to be true of many countries. It can also be to your advantage. With Commonwealth countries, you either meet the immigration criteria, or you don't. With Italy, if an official tells you no, just keep trying until someone says yes. That's what happened with my friend who moved to Florence, and I've read about others who have had the same experience. It's partly due to changing laws, and partly due to the whim and mood of the official you ask on that particular day.

And I don't know if this is still true, but I heard it used to be difficult to find non-Italian food in Italy, which bothers some people who are used to having a wide variety of ethnic cuisines available. When I was researching SE Asia recently, I was amazed at the variety of non-Asian restaurants in Chiang Mai, Phuket, Penang, and so on.

If you search for expat blogs about Italy, you'll probably find a fair number. I did when I was looking a few years ago.
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