Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-18-2015, 09:32 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,521,872 times
Reputation: 10037

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
People who make those assumptions aren't thinking of classical European culture, nor "modern". They're thinking that Russia is some weird and marginal amalgam of Asia and the fringes of Europe.
It might come across as such and I understand it, but those who take time to "study the case," realize sooner or later that they deal with European culture indeed, as unusual as it might seem.

Quote:
Russia's problem isn't that it wasn't a leader in classical culture, nor that it doesn't have modernist trends in any of the arts. Russia's problem is mainly, IMO, the language barrier, and to some extent, political barriers that grow or fade in strength, depending on who's in charge. Russia has a lot to offer (spare me your guffaws, people, until after you've spent a fair amt. of time there doing more than just tourism), but it has a hard time getting exposure for its creative side in the global market.
We were talking about "classical art" rather, ( where Russia is distinctly European,) but that's OK.
If you ask me, I'd say that Russia is set to work AGAINST global market (it's another way to put to "control it," rather than becoming an obedient part of it. And that's when a totally different language comes into play. Indeed it creates a barrier, sort of like "creation of different tongues destroyed the Babel tower," - it keeps Russians separated from other major "engines" of Europe and makes them working on their own "engine." The whole "language" thing puts them into their own distinct world, so here goes literature, poetry, and the rest.

Quote:
And there are some bureaucratic barriers there, as well, as has been discussed here in the past.
What I see about "bureaucratic barriers" there, from one historic period to another - it seems to be a universal approach of those in power to keep their position unchallenged; no matter who is in charge - tzars, communists, or oligarchy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-18-2015, 10:22 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,521,872 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
OK, everybody calm down about Finland and Hungary; my riff there was very much tongue-in-cheek. Iceland, too. I was trying to point out the seeming arbitrariness of the whole discussion, the criteria, etc. Oh well.


Being a powerful engine for the country's development isn't a criterion for outlier status, and someone else pointed out.
No, being a powerful engine for the country's ( and not only) development is not a sign of an "outlier" on its own. Europe had few powerful engines, but they were always very much the "internal players."

Quote:
The fact is that people perceive Russia as an outlier, simply because it's ... what?
Because of a number of things as it has been already mentioned - the language, the religion, the politics and because you are just a plain behemoth. Behemoths are not known for "fitting in" well generally speaking.

Quote:
A riddle wrapped in an enigma, etc. Who said that? Tostoy? Dostoevsky?
Churchill. Winston Churchill. ( Circa second world war I believe. )


Quote:
It's foreign and unfathomable to them, seemingly "backward", and somewhat exotic in a dorky, kind of clumsy way. It's the "other".
It is. The problem is - it's still of European family))))


Quote:
The same people who relegate it to marginal status in Europe will do the same to the Baltic states, and those oddball little bits of the former Yugoslavia, like Macedonia, and other anomalies and fringe cultures in E Europe and the Balkans (Albania, Bulgaria, Moldova), considered suitable only to serve as the butt of bad jokes.
Polandball. The "cool" kids and the "dorks." Quite usual story, but all are in the same class nevertheless- European.

Quote:
The point is, it's somewhat ignorant and haughty West Europeans doing the categorizing. Who are they to appoint themselves arbiters of who's an outlier in Europe? What about everybody else--don't they have a say? And if not, why not?

Leave it up to Russians. Their ability to look down at BOTH Western Europeans AND Eastern Europeans ( the smaller kind) left and right, is truly amazing))))
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2015, 10:46 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 2,013,869 times
Reputation: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
Russia
Ukraine
Turkey
Belarus
Albania
Malta
the UK
Ireland
Cyprus
Russia should be on its own separate category - Eurasia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2015, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Dublin, Ireland
11 posts, read 19,187 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestMind View Post
They belong to anglosphere culture along with the US, Canada, NZ, Australia and even perhaps Ireland.

Uk is definitely quite distinctive in terms of culture compared to continental europe, which tend to be divided in cultural blocks.

They are usually the head of western culture along with the US.

Western culture is quite different from continental european culture.
Come on, of course they are in Europe. Culturally, Geographically, ethnically!
Just because the UK is different than Central Europe, and definitely sees itself as different, doesn't mean it's not part of Europe. EG. Compare Finland and Spain? TOTALLY different culturally, still Europe.

Europe is a mish-mash of different cultures on one Continent.
Perhaps you can compare the UK to US, Canada, Nz etc...because......these places are culturally European and speak English, a European language, they were colonised by white Europeans.

Anyway, Japan is an Island off the coast of Asian, distinct and different from much of Asia. No one would ever say it is not in Asia! (maybe the Japanese think that, i don't know)
That's the comparison i'll make which i think ties it up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2015, 10:13 AM
 
4,231 posts, read 3,555,945 times
Reputation: 2207
Turkey is in Middle East.

Culture is also Middle Eastern.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2015, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Northern Ireland and temporarily England
7,668 posts, read 5,257,582 times
Reputation: 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Russian culture is very much the core to Europe tbqh. Looks at all those cathedrals, palaces, literary figures, classical music etc. Those are iconic.
Russia has absolutely no influence on my life. I don't think or care about what happens there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2015, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,639 posts, read 16,019,500 times
Reputation: 5286
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Thomas View Post
Turkey is in Middle East.

Culture is also Middle Eastern.
Turkey's culture is Turkic with Middle Eastern influence (Islam) and is located in Western Asia.

The Middle East of today or as i like to call the Near East (like all people did back in the day) is pretty much only to refer to Arabs, Turkish are not Arabs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2015, 11:41 AM
 
338 posts, read 334,857 times
Reputation: 162
All except the UK (except for Turkey/Malta/Cyprus), as they do not carry the same mindset, even Central and South America are more "European". The UK may someday itch very hard to divorce from the rest of the darned continent as they currently have the strongest acknowledgement with other regions of the world especially those they colonized that they do exist so. Is there the same mental awareness found between the Netherlands and Indonesia? France and Vietnam? No. Plus there are key divergent behaviors through British history that stand in strong contrast to the rest of Europe, certain behaviors that get them snubbed at to this very day by the usual Greek/French/Dutch types. It's like a group of rich people acting snobbish on the new-money guy for hanging out with his old friends and taking public transport. It's stupidly enraging.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2015, 11:53 AM
 
3 posts, read 3,236 times
Reputation: 13
In due course...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2015, 01:20 PM
 
228 posts, read 367,353 times
Reputation: 157
Yes I would, apart from Turkey
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:08 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top