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Old 05-16-2011, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
513 posts, read 996,166 times
Reputation: 274

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One question to the Swedes: don't to mind to become a minorty in Sweden?

And what about projections of HDI (Life Quality) in Sweden? Is it linked to immigration?

List of countries by future Human Development Index projections of the United Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By 2030 Sweden is going to drop to #45, far below Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Latvia and other Eastern countries.

 
Old 05-16-2011, 04:20 PM
 
506 posts, read 1,267,963 times
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10% of the Swedish poppulation are immigrants. Finland is the largest source of immigrants. My -grandfather came from Finland. I do not think Swedes will be a minority...plus you are confusing ethnicity with nationality.

As for the HDI index. Wikipedia is never 100% fact. Look at the source material. The "Human Development Report", Sweden get in the top 10 (many times top 5) in most categories. The second source document, "A Hypothetical Cohort Model of Human Development" does give Sweden a REALLY poor ranking. Something is a bit fishy, How come our fellow Scandinavian nation Norway ranks in 6th place?? Their society (and immigration, since you are so conserned) is really not that different.

When one developes matrixes for these kind of projections, there are always room for errors, parameters not taken into account, etc. That Sweden would rank just below LIBYA in 19 years time sounds really fishy.

I am not so sure you have been to Sweden. Malmo as about 1/3 of its inhabitants born abroad. How exactly did you nanage to NOT see any blue eyed Swedes? (Far from all people named Eriksson and Nilsson have blond hair, you do realize that, right??)

Maybe you are just really concerned? Maybe your original post is just another example of "Sweden hating" based on blogs and such? You confuse me, I have to admit.

"A Hypothetical Cohort Model of Human Development" + Sweden, you will see that a bunch of extreme right wing blogs make the same big deal that you did AND you will find PLENTY of other who are kind of wondering HOW exactly Swedish society will crumble in 19 years time.

Last edited by Mr_Jonas; 05-16-2011 at 04:30 PM..
 
Old 05-16-2011, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
3,511 posts, read 5,455,709 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by moskiter View Post
One question to the Swedes: don't to mind to become a minorty in Sweden?

And what about projections of HDI (Life Quality) in Sweden? Is it linked to immigration?

List of countries by future Human Development Index projections of the United Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By 2030 Sweden is going to drop to #45, far below Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Latvia and other Eastern countries.
I doubt it, you will note Australia and Canada sitting at the top of thoes listings, and the number of immigrants per head of population in thoes countries is currently double sweedens, and growing much quicker.

Last edited by danielsa1775; 05-16-2011 at 05:38 PM..
 
Old 05-16-2011, 05:54 PM
 
506 posts, read 1,267,963 times
Reputation: 227
So in other words, Sweden will colapse and be a developing nation in 19 years?
During 2010 Swedens GPG grew with 7.3% Do you understand what kind of economic and social colapse that is needed to turn Sweden into Libya?

The United States had a GDP development of 1.25% (I SERIOUSLY doubt that the US will implode eventhough the country has a rough time right now) Just stop for a second, put your thoughts in immigration and your perceptions about Sweden. Does it really sound plausable taht the whole nation would tank?

Because this article presents an HD list based on an old UN methodology, which is no longer valid - since the UN changed its methodology in its recent updated HD Report published.
The UN also published "The HDI 2010:New Controversies,Old Critiques" because told method provided very strange results.
Here you can download it:
http://hdr.undp.org/en/reports/globa...RP_2011_01.pdf

If you really like math, you can read through all the explanations and WHY they have changed how data is calculated.

But I suspect this discussion is pointless. According to some here, Sweden will implode and be the only developing nation in western Europe in 19 years.............
 
Old 05-16-2011, 07:04 PM
 
242 posts, read 668,318 times
Reputation: 193
The UN's HDI that is cited is determined by "the uniformly weighted sum with ⅓ contributed by each of the following factor indices:
Life Expectancy Index, Education Index, Adult Literacy Index, Gross Enrollment Index, GDP."

The projections are based on recent trends. I'm guessing Sweden is expected to fall compared to other countries in GDP over the next 20 years. Does that mean that Sweden is expected to be poorer or just other countries are expected to be richer? I highly doubt it's because of immigration/refugee trends as others have said, other countries have much higher levels of immigration and remain high on the projected HDI.

Anyway, if you're interested in living in a more homogeneous Nordic country, look into Iceland. European countries have never really been that homogeneous (in the sense a certain type of people with very similar physical traits lived in a defined space for thousands of years) and now due to ease of transportation, Scandinavia is becoming a part of the melting pot.
 
Old 05-16-2011, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
513 posts, read 996,166 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Jonas View Post
I am not so sure you have been to Sweden. Malmo as about 1/3 of its inhabitants born abroad. How exactly did you nanage to NOT see any blue eyed Swedes? (Far from all people named Eriksson and Nilsson have blond hair, you do realize that, right??)

Maybe you are just really concerned? Maybe your original post is just another example of "Sweden hating" based on blogs and such? You confuse me, I have to admit.
I've been only to Malmo and, of course I saw Swedes, but very few since it was Sweden.

Sweden hating? I assure you I love Sweden and I wish the best to this county. I have no idea how you could have drawn such a conclusion.
 
Old 05-16-2011, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
513 posts, read 996,166 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Jonas View Post
So in other words, Sweden will colapse and be a developing nation in 19 years?
During 2010 Swedens GPG grew with 7.3% Do you understand what kind of economic and social colapse that is needed to turn Sweden into Libya?

The United States had a GDP development of 1.25% (I SERIOUSLY doubt that the US will implode eventhough the country has a rough time right now) Just stop for a second, put your thoughts in immigration and your perceptions about Sweden. Does it really sound plausable taht the whole nation would tank?

Because this article presents an HD list based on an old UN methodology, which is no longer valid - since the UN changed its methodology in its recent updated HD Report published.
The UN also published "The HDI 2010:New Controversies,Old Critiques" because told method provided very strange results.
Here you can download it:
http://hdr.undp.org/en/reports/globa...RP_2011_01.pdf

If you really like math, you can read through all the explanations and WHY they have changed how data is calculated.

But I suspect this discussion is pointless. According to some here, Sweden will implode and be the only developing nation in western Europe in 19 years.............
This makes a good sense, thank you for this explanation.
 
Old 05-18-2011, 12:41 PM
 
Location: SWE
887 posts, read 1,376,297 times
Reputation: 798
I don't think Finnish people have mass-immigrated to Sweden in probably decades. 60's and early 70's was a time when alot of working class Finns packed up and made the move, for better job opportunities and a higher standard of living at the time.
 
Old 05-18-2011, 12:55 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,374 posts, read 19,297,224 times
Reputation: 8487
Quote:
Originally Posted by moskiter View Post
OK, I've recently visited Sweden. I am from Poland and I was very shocked what I saw there. I pretty much expected something completely different, something what I saw when I lived in Poland. Living in Malmoe for 3 days I met almost no Swedes!! I talked to the ones I met in a pub and from what they told me the liberal immigration policy of Sweden has destroyed the country which I expected to see. I did some research and found out that Swedes are to become a minorty in their own country in less than 30 years from now. I feel very sad about it. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Funny, immigrants from Poland are the third biggest minority in Malmö, and #4 nationally
Frankly, your description sounds odd, Malmö ist still a majority Swedish city... Your post sounds like one of those populist, alarmist posts like help, Europe will be Muslim by 20xx
 
Old 05-19-2011, 08:44 AM
 
506 posts, read 1,267,963 times
Reputation: 227
Vic_Vega: Yes, the last larger migration of Finns to Sweden started in the 60’s and ended in the very early 80’s. I say 80’s as the school I attended from 1st to 4th grade had Finnish speaking classes for each grade. My friend Pettri Koskila went to such a class. There has been several “waves” of immigration from Sweden to Finland through the centuries. I think it started in the mid 1500’s people from Finland moved to Sweden to work in mines, mainly the Bergslagen area. My own great grandfather came from Österbotten/ Pohjanmaa to Piteå in much more recent times. Many of us northern Swedes probably have more Finnish ancestry than we have ancestry from central and southern Sweden.

In many regards, Finns are one of the groups that has come to Sweden and “made” the “current Swede”, to speak………
When one counts immigration they usually cont country of birth and/or dual citizenship, so Finland is the county that most Swedish citizens have as their birth country.

moskiter: Yes Malmö has a lot of Muslim, but you also have people who are from the middle east who are NOT Muslim.

This is the breakdown of immigrants to Sweden, according to Statistiska Centralbyran/Statistics Sweden:
1. Finland (172,218)
2. Former Yugoslavia (152,268)
3. Iraq (117,919)
4. Poland (67,518)
5. Iran (59,922)
6. Germany (47,803)
7. Denmark (46,002)
8. Norway (43,819)
9. Turkey (40,766)
10. Somalia (31,734)

One of the biggest ETHNIC groups is Assyrians/Syriacs. A Christian ethnic group that have traditionally lived all over Iraq, northeast Syria, northwest Iran, and the Southeastern Anatolia region of Turkey. You will find MANY Assyrians/Syriacs in Sweden. About 120,000 Assyrian/Syriacs live in Sweden today, and are settled in central and southern Sweden. The Assyrian people can trace their origins to the indigenous population of pre-Islamic and pre-Arab Mesopotamia. The first Assyrians/Syriacs that came to Sweden in 1967 hailed from Lebanon, later more came from Turkey and more recently from Iraq.

I am pointing this out because, I am sure that plenty of the folks you assumed were Muslims during your visit to Malmö, were in fact Christians of Assyrian decent. Not to say that there are NOT Muslims in Malmö.
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