Which European countries are declining fast? (best, life, country, jobs)

[evissone]

Europe seems to be diverging. As the earliest industralized countries, some have been in silence economic decline for decades.

Which countries are still considered wealthy and powerful, in terms of economic growth, technological advance, cultural influence, and which are becoming less and less significant on the world stage?

My perception is that Germany has been doing the best, leading Europe in most aspects. France is holding up pretty well too. The UK is kind of declining, but London is still unshakable.

On the other hand, Greece and Portual are fading rapidly. I don't remember last time these countries did anything significant to impact the rest of the world, except their financial mess. Italy and Spain are only slightly better, life quality is deteriorating as these countries don't seem to produce much real products or have any technological innovation any more. Last time I was in Italy, it didn't strike me as a wealthy and advanced country at all. My friend asked the question "why is Italy even considered as a "developed country" again?" Spain is even poorer with an unemployment rate of over 20%.

Not sure about the Netherlands, Austria, Scandinavian countries, but my guess is they are doing better than P-I-G-S.

The world is changing fast. Is it possible that in 50 years, some once rich European countries will cease to be considered as "developed" countries compared with the rest of the world, especially rising Asia? For example, Taiwan and South Korea are richer than many EU countries now. Coastal China also sees higher life quality than Portugal and Spain.

[VTHokieFan]

Spain is a disaster.

[Ez Mode Pls]

Wow interesting. What is Spain and Portugal really like anyway? You honestly made these countries seem much more interesting to me. I've only been to Asia so far, i have no interest in visiting expensive, rich countries in Europe at this point in my life, I'll save that for when i'm like 40.

[Avondrood]

Interesting thread. Especially Greece will have a hell of a time in the near future. It's too bad, as it is a wonderful country with friendly people.

First of all the PIIGS come to mind of course. Of the European countries, they are the least capable to compete in the merciless rat race the whole world is involved.

The UK I think will bounce back eventually. Their current conservative government looks like a competent and potent actor that will carry out all necessary reforms.

Concerning my own country Belgium: it has a strong economic base, but it struggles politically. These turmoils might slow down necessary changes (pension reforms and all that).

[kevxu]

Originally Posted by evissone

Europe seems to be diverging. As the earliest industralized countries, some have been in silence economic decline for decades.

Which countries are still considered wealthy and powerful, in terms of economic growth, technological advance, cultural influence, and which are becoming less and less significant on the world stage?

My perception is that Germany has been doing the best, leading Europe in most aspects. France is holding up pretty well too. The UK is kind of declining, but London is still unshakable.

On the other hand, Greece and Portual are fading rapidly. I don't remember last time these countries did anything significant to impact the rest of the world, except their financial mess. Italy and Spain are only slightly better, life quality is deteriorating as these countries don't seem to produce much real products or have any technological innovation any more. Last time I was in Italy, it didn't strike me as a wealthy and advanced country at all. My friend asked the question "why is Italy even considered as a "developed country" again?" Spain is even poorer with an unemployment rate of over 20%.

Not sure about the Netherlands, Austria, Scandinavian countries, but my guess is they are doing better than P-I-G-S.

The world is changing fast. Is it possible that in 50 years, some once rich European countries will cease to be considered as "developed" countries compared with the rest of the world, especially rising Asia? For example, Taiwan and South Korea are richer than many EU countries now. Coastal China also sees higher life quality than Portugal and Spain.

You neglect to mention that if it weren't for China having purchased so much U.S. debt in the past, it would going down the drain at an unstoppable rate at this point. China and other U.S. debt holders are desperately keeping the U.S. alive in the hope that the country and its currency will be worth what they were fifteen and twenty years ago.

[Thepastpresentandfuture]

Originally Posted by evissone

Europe seems to be diverging. As the earliest industralized countries, some have been in silence economic decline for decades.

Which countries are still considered wealthy and powerful, in terms of economic growth, technological advance, cultural influence, and which are becoming less and less significant on the world stage?

My perception is that Germany has been doing the best, leading Europe in most aspects. France is holding up pretty well too. The UK is kind of declining, but London is still unshakable.

On the other hand, Greece and Portual are fading rapidly. I don't remember last time these countries did anything significant to impact the rest of the world, except their financial mess. Italy and Spain are only slightly better, life quality is deteriorating as these countries don't seem to produce much real products or have any technological innovation any more. Last time I was in Italy, it didn't strike me as a wealthy and advanced country at all. My friend asked the question "why is Italy even considered as a "developed country" again?" Spain is even poorer with an unemployment rate of over 20%.

Not sure about the Netherlands, Austria, Scandinavian countries, but my guess is they are doing better than P-I-G-S.

The world is changing fast. Is it possible that in 50 years, some once rich European countries will cease to be considered as "developed" countries compared with the rest of the world, especially rising Asia? For example, Taiwan and South Korea are richer than many EU countries now. Coastal China also sees higher life quality than Portugal and Spain.

Interesting thread subject.

I just wish it had a different thread subject name such as "What is the economic, cultural, and quality of life state for all the European countries" instead of "Which European countries are declining fast."

This is because is seems like it is talking more about the actual economic, cultural, and quality of life state for all the European countries instead of only talking about which European countries are declining.


I would say the European countries that are doing that best are England/UK, France, Netherlands, Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Germany. These countries seem wealthy, powerful, have good economic growth, good technological advances, great cultural influence, etc.

The European countries that seem to doing the worst are Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Iceland. These countries seem like they are becoming less and less significant on the world stage, have economic problems, economic stagnancy, and cultural stagnancy etc. These countries generally used to do much better with all of these categories.

Then after that, the European countries that seem to be heading a more positive direction instead of a negative direction are Belgium, Austria, Romania, Poland, Ireland, and Hungary.

The European countries that seem to be heading a more negative direction instead of a positive direction are Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, Lithuania, and Latvia. But these countries in particular were already doing pretty bad.

For the other countries in Europe such as Russia, Finland, Czech Republic, Croatia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Bulgaria, Albania, Estonia, Bosnia, etc.(Damn, Europe has so many countries for such a small geographic area)I am not sure how they are doing so I won't make assumptions for those countries.

[bale002]

Originally Posted by Avondrood

First of all the PIIGS come to mind of course. Of the European countries, they are the least capable to compete in the merciless rat race the whole world is involved.

There is a similar question in the business and finance forum phrased in the form of whether the US is in a double-dip recession.

Global competitiveness is the key.

Based off a quote from someone else, here is my answer, substituting Europe for [US]:

Vegas Joe

This is not just a run of the mill recession ... but a structural change in the economy largely due to technology and globalization.

Corporate profits are very high ... but for the average working people things are probably not going to get much better anytime soon.

"The globally uncompetitive average European [US] worker will be in recession for many years to come, some stagnating, some in depression, while globally competitive corporations, professionals, and people with wealth who know how to invest globally will maintain, and possibly increase, their real incomes.

Then there are those in protected sectors and parasites like lawyers, politicians, higher level bureaucrats and government employees, (finance industry) executives in general, and, in short, those skilled at taking a bigger piece of a pie that is not growing."

So the above is true even and especially for countries like Portugal, Spain, Italy, and Greece. Therefore, to be sure, it is legitimate to make general statements about which countries as a whole are in decline or relative decline, but there is a risk that such generalizations may obscure the fact that within each country there are globally competitive economic agents.

As for the average worker in the countries of early industrialization now in at least relative decline, it may indeed be the case that those in northern European countries, and possibly also Japan, may fare better than those in the US and the so-called PIIGS European countries. But then again, countries like Portugal, Ireland and Greece, even Spain, were late to the party, so to speak, and it seems like they are the first to leave.

Anyway, good luck!

[Grim Reader]

Originally Posted by bale002

"The globally uncompetitive average European [US] worker will be in recession for many years to come, some stagnating, some in depression, while globally competitive corporations, professionals, and people with wealth who know how to invest globally will maintain, and possibly increase, their real incomes.

There are some fairly large differeces in competitiveness between US workers and European ones. Look at this comparison of tax rates. What it shows is that the higher the wage level for a job are, the more competitive the European workers become. Whereas for lower skill/unskilled jobs, they become less competitive.

The difference is that many of these countries recognize that the only way to compete with the third world on wages for low-skill jobs is to be third world. So the economies are retuned to be competitive at higher levels. And service industries etc, supporting those workers.

It is no coincidence that the countries in trouble in Europe today are the ones who have tried to run an economy with low amounts of regulation for banking, small social safety nets, few entitlements, and competing on low wages.

[CroatWebWanderer]

EU is deep crisis, not only economically. In terms of economy growth, 2010 was the year of slight recovery for most of EU, with the strongest growth in Sweden, Poland and Germany. Predictions for this year is growth for most countries except some peripheral ones like Portugal. As for Greece, the level of their debt is so high that I really see no solution; austerity measures forced by IMF and EU are counterproductive and only lead to even more fiscal deficit. Greece is the member of the Eurozone so that adds a bit to the problem too, the Euro as the common currency is being seriously tested. Add to that that some countries like France, Germany, Denmark reintroduced a kind of border checks within the Schengen zone (“no border EU zone”) cause of influx of north Africans.

Yeah, our beloved Europe, the best of all continents, is in the middle of a serious mess; however in my opinion the main crisis in EU is not economical but the lack of social cohesion as the consequence of insane immigration numbers of Africans and Asians there.

[shane...]

Originally Posted by CroatWebWanderer

Yeah, our beloved Europe, the best of all continents, is in the middle of a serious mess; however in my opinion the main crisis in EU is not economical but the lack of social cohesion as the consequence of insane immigration numbers of Africans and Asians there.

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Europe needs young immigrants.

You will have a hard time blaming immigrants for the main crisis - the financial one.