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konfetka,
Lemme guess: You're one of these people who think George Soros is evil and trying to take over the entire former Soviet Union?
Everybody knows about soft power, and everybody uses it; if you think Russia doesn't then I've got some beachfront property to show you.
Neither you nor erasure have addressed my very direct question: Is it really easier for you to believe all these conspiracy theories than it is to believe that the Russian people have simply had enough?
(Ever heard of Occam's Razor? You seem to like Wikipedia; look it up.)
It's always someone else, isn't it?
It just can't be that the Russian people are tired of being lied to, stolen from, and laughed at by the kleptocrats, can it? It has to be the Americans (queue boogeyman music).
What was the $9 million used for? I will await your answer. Perhaps China News had that info?
Your argument: "Because Russia is corrupt, and Russians like to blame others, and the government is not perfect, therefore Americans don't have a hidden agenda for Russia." One doesn't have anything to do with the other.
No, Americans don't, most of them don't have a clue about what's going on. I don't think everybody in the US government knows whats going on. However, a few people know what's going on, and it's all going according to their plan.
I understand, you are being protective of your country, I live in the US, too, it's not pleasant. But it shouldn't be a surprise, it's not like US always just minded their business, until today.
According to emails from the election company, each election violation report was compensated, therefore financially motivating the observers to come up with more violations.
erasure, you missed your calling as a conspiracy writer for the X-Files.
Haaaa)))) I've missed quite a few callings in my life, but being a conspiracy writer ( leave alone for the X-Files) wouldn't be one of them, trust me
Quote:
The Russian PEOPLE have spoken (FINALLY). Do you know how I know? I live here; I work with Russian; my friends are Russians; I am married to one. If you are Russian, you should be proud: Farewell to apathy...doesn't that sound good?
#1. Russian people have spoken not for the first time; the first time they did it in the beginning of the nineties, and it didn't end up well for them - remember? So there are legitimate concerns here, that's why I want you to listen to konfetka, because she is expressing the point of view that is quite prominent among Russians as well ( so yes, I am ready to play devil's advocate - it's important under the circumstances.)
Quote:
Where are you, and what do you know apart from conspiracy sites on the Internet?
Is your disillusionment (hatred?) of the US so deep that you would prefer to first believe that the US is somehow to blame before you would believe that the Russian people are sick and tired of this kleptocracy? Or do you have such little faith in the Russian people?
# 2. It's not the "conspiracy sites" that I visit, lol, but I am frequenting the site of the party which lost the MOST during these elections; these are the people I am talking for the most part.
So of course I know better that they WERE NOT in any way sponsored by the US ( laws under Putin would never let something like that happen, since they are written specifically to prevent such possibility.)
I simply find it quite peculiar that the class of Russian kleptocrats that was created with the help of the Western banking system, that's still serves as their life support - yeah, I find it very peculiar that now these kleptocrats are guarding as an apple of their eye any access to the West by their opposition.
Because I suppose they understand that the very power that beget them can kill them.
Your argument: "Because Russia is corrupt, and Russians like to blame others, and the government is not perfect, therefore Americans don't have a hidden agenda for Russia." One doesn't have anything to do with the other.
No, Americans don't, most of them don't have a clue about what's going on. I don't think everybody in the US government knows whats going on. However, a few people know what's going on, and it's all going according to their plan.
I understand, you are being protective of your country, I live in the US, too, it's not pleasant. But it shouldn't be a surprise, it's not like US always just minded their business, until today.
According to emails from the election company, each election violation report was compensated, therefore financially motivating the observers to come up with more violations.
They have everything to do with each other:
1. Russia is corrupt: Therefore, the Russian people are tired of it (thus the protests);
2. Russians like to blame others: Therefore, Putin has put the blame on Clinton, the US, anybody else for their "election issues";
3. The Russian government is not perfect. This is the same as #1. therefore
4. Americans don't have a hidden agenda for Russia.
I'm sorry, your logic is way out there. You're making no sense here. I guess it's hard to communicate clearly when you don't simply copy and paste quotes from random blogs and the "free" Chinese press, huh?
Is it really easier for you to believe all these conspiracy theories than it is to believe that the Russian people have simply had enough?
I'm not being protective of my country. That is absurd. I am trying to show that the discontent and protests here are REAL. What does that have to do with the US? I don't even live there. You are consciously deflecting the argument into a strawman contest.
I'm sorry if you think the US is "unpleasant"; however, I'm unsure what that has to do with what we're discussing here
Given that all of your sources are a bunch of tinfoil hat wearing psychos whose conspiracy theories would probably raise a few eyebrows even among the the most hardline Russian patriots, I'm not even going to say anything about your ability make your own conclusions. Your mentality is clearly stuck somewhere in the early 80's.
Really? The words of some KPRF hack is now the ultimate proof of the US government financing the opposition?
No, parties ( of opposition) be that KPRF or LDPR nutjobs can't be financed from abroad. People like Nemtzov ( on the same picture with Baiden above,) or Navalny can be I suppose, but they don't have parties lined up behind them
Quote:
And these people are telling me to "wise up"? Good lord
Haaaa)))) I've missed quite a few callings in my life, but being a conspiracy writer ( leave alone for the X-Files) wouldn't be one of them, trust me
#1. Russian people have spoken not for the first time; the first time they did it in the beginning of the nineties, and it didn't end up well for them - remember? So there are legitimate concerns here, that's why I want you to listen to "konfetka," because she is expressing the point of view that is quite prominent among the Russians as well ( so yes, I am ready to play devil's advocate - it's important under the circumstances.)
# 2. It's not the "conspiracy sites" that I visit, lol, but I am frequenting the site of the party which lost the MOST during these elections; these are the people I am talking for the most part.
So of course I know better that they WERE NOT in any way sponsored by the US ( laws under Putin would never let something like that happen, since they are written specifically to prevent such possibility.)
I simply find it quite peculiar that the class of Russian kleptocrats that was created with the help of the Western banking system, that's still serves as their life support - yeah, I find it very peculiar that now these kleptocrats are guarding as an apple of their eye any access to the West by their opposition.
Because I suppose they understand that the very power that beget them can kill them.
1. konfetka's point of view, if you can call posting links a "point of view", is shared by United Russia apologists who would prefer to believe all of this "unpleasantness" is being caused by the big, bad USA (probably George Soros, too). Lucky that the British Council (spoooky) and Peace Corps (suuuper spoooky) had already been kicked out, or the US would already be re-naming Moscow "New Washington".
2. The kleptocrats of which I am referring are remnants of the Soviet system, namely the KGB. Now, considering they have accrued billions of dollars, I suppose it is nearly impossible for them to avoid contact with Western banking.
But what I'm reading here is: On one hand, evil Westerners are trying to get rid of the kleptocrats (konfetka's take); on the other hand evil Western banks are best buds with the kleptocrats (erasure's take). Can it really be both?!
It's a bit hard to respect what a person is trying to say if they don't actually use their own words.
BTW, neither one of you has answered the question (I've posted it, what?, three or four times now). The reason? You don't want to. Remember, Occam's Razor.
They have everything to do with each other:
1. Russia is corrupt: Therefore, the Russian people are tired of it (thus the protests);
2. Russians like to blame others: Therefore, Putin has put the blame on Clinton, the US, anybody else for their "election issues";
3. The Russian government is not perfect. This is the same as #1. therefore
4. Americans don't have a hidden agenda for Russia.
I'm sorry, your logic is way out there. You're making no sense here. I guess it's hard to communicate clearly when you don't simply copy and paste quotes from random blogs and the "free" Chinese press, huh?
Is it really easier for you to believe all these conspiracy theories than it is to believe that the Russian people have simply had enough?
I'm not being protective of my country. That is absurd. I am trying to show that the discontent and protests here are REAL. What does that have to do with the US? I don't even live there. You are consciously deflecting the argument into a strawman contest.
I'm sorry if you think the US is "unpleasant"; however, I'm unsure what that has to do with what we're discussing here
I can believe that Russian people had enough, I can also believe that it doesn't give a right to a foreign government to interfere in Russian internal affairs.
What is not pleasant is disillusionment with a goverment, that is supposed to be the most "righteous" in the world.
If you choose to keep living with your illusions, it is up to you, there are plenty of people who will agree with me, and disagree with you. I made my point.
Was there a righteous government pagaent? I missed that.
So, we agree: The Russian people have had enough. As such, it doesn't seem to be a big leap to assume that THAT might be the reason Russian people are protesting, does it?
Or is the bigger leap of logic that the US used its $9million dollars to somehow ignite the flames of discontent (by a population that is already discontent) in the name of AMERICA (or EVIL? or CAPITALISM? or their hatred RUSSIAN HOCKEY?!).
George SOROS...PEACE CORPS...BRITISH COUNCIL...EEEEEEVILLLLL. LOL
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