Genetic map of Europe - some observations (Swedish, Norwegian, travel)
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Yes, the concept of 'atlantic facade' theory is just an odd invention made by some romantism British theorists that dislike the fact that the British isles are a northern European place and want to try to persuade themselves in delusion theories that they are somehow southern Europeans. To do that, the 'Atlantic facade theory' gave them the belief that British would be more realted to Spaniards ( !!!) rather than to neihboring germanic countries of northern Europe (the north sea area to with the British isles belong since ever) such as Flemish, Dutch, Germans, Danish or Norviegians...[/quote]
Exactly right, the theory is made up by people who resent the Germanic connection with Germany because of both World Wars and other northerners. How can they be related only to Spaniards while their neighbors are right there. In primitive times, it would be easier for a man to come from Belgium, Netherlands,Denmark and northern France to England than from Spain. Another could travel from Norway to northern Scotland than coming from Spain or Portugal. The British were the last regions at least in Western Europe and one of the last in the whole of Europe to be inhabitated by modern humans, those first people most likely came from northwestern Europe which is right across the sea than from Spain which is out there. At one time Britain was connected to continental Europe. In prehistoric times, man would rather travel by land than by sea. This is why modern humans when they left Africa went by way of the Middle-east and Asia before entering Europe. The same way the first people in the Americas came by way of Siberia to America. Man only used boats when necessary or until when that proper sailing technique became known. Even the Ancient Romans did not sail directly from Spain when they invaded southern Britain, they came from occupied lands nearby France, Belgium, southern Netherlands and many mercenaries used were Batavians. Phoenicians now we know never made it directly to Britain, rather got their tin from lands which were trading with Britain. Despite the fact that Europeans are genetically over-all similar in comparison to other groups, the biggest genetical difference are between Northern and Southern Europe, the one between Western and Eastern Europe is secondary. The Irish and Iberians do not share a common history. British and Irish people as the Danes, Dutch are predominantly a Northwestern European people. [/quote]
Last edited by saxonwold; 11-10-2013 at 12:36 PM..
Yes, Germans have different facial structure ( or rather different structure-s, because there is no such thing as one unified "German type.")
The other people you've mentioned - I've checked on them; they might ( or might not) look like Britons, but overall they do not look representative of Spanish general population to me.
There is a important segment of northern spanish population that look quite british, thats mainly seen among asturians, galicians and basques.
Quite a few Spaniards could pass as British. Not just Nacho Monreal, but also David De Gea, Chelsea target Alberto Moreno, Jordi Alba and Fernando Llorente.
Using footballers as an example.
My point, many spaniard faces are not that foreign to the uk, in fact many of them look even uncanny british, on the other hand german faces are quite different in structure from spanish ones.
My point, many spaniard faces are not that foreign to the uk, in fact many of them look even uncanny british, on the other hand german faces are quite different in structure from spanish ones.
What's interesting is that most of the footballers I mentioned come from northern Spain. They could have distant Basque ancestry and there is supposedly a connection between the Basques and ancient Britons.
Monreal looks about as British as it gets. He looks like a younger version of Tony Adams.
You are just touchy that there is a heavy phenotypical connection between UK, Ireland, Western/NW france and Northern Iberia. Many faces are uncanny. Its like a pizza with the same base but different salsa.
I'm not touchy at all, but you are just exaggerating about the "Atlantic connection" which is only a mere theory while genetical tests prove otherwise. There's no particular phenotypical connection between the British Isles and Iberia or else Iberia would have been particular low in genetical diversity as the British Isles are. Iberia should have been as pale as the British Isles are. By the way what do you mean by "the central European eyefolds" a sign of "Mongoloid/Hunnish" admixtures perhaps? However I do believe that some Celtic-speaking people did settle northern Iberia and mingled with population they met, that is why from time to time, we see light-complexioned Iberians but it is not the average which tends towards a Mediterranean tone. Uncanny? Are you telling that all Germans are ugly with strong jaws, squarish head and an unrefined nasal features? By the way, Sorbs are Germans of an ancient Western Slavic strains so are Wends. Many Germans who call themselves Germanic also Slavic admixtures. Sorbs are genetically closest to Czechs and Poles.
Autosomal Dna which are more global than just a Y-dna, shows that the Northwest European admixture to be in the over 60% in the British Isles, Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, the far-north of Germany and most of the Netherlands! Those lands have more in common with the British Isles populations than Iberia.
Britons ( like Germans) have few different types, and what it looked like to me, is that part of the tribe ( or ethnic group or whatever you want to call it,) that settled for the most part in Britain - part of that group ended up somehow in Northern Spain as well, and this particular look differs from mainstream Spaniards.
don't look too much like British in general, although I can see why you think that they resemble each other, in terms of the facial structure first of all, because part of British population lacks the typical shape of Northern Europeans in this respect and does remind more of Northern Spaniards. This might be more a case for the Welsh people if anything else, however when you look at English people ( or what's regarded as typical English faces,) - their elongated structure is already as close to the rest of Northern Europeans as it gets.
( Not a case with Spaniards, obviously, where this kind of shape is rather an exception.)
Oh, and the Basques - if anything else I'd confuse them with the French, not the British.
P.S. Another thing - I disagree with a conclusion that's made in one of the videos that Spaniards are somehow similar in their looks to Northern Africans. Spaniards look to me precisely what they are - Southern Europeans, and being unfamiliar with Sorbian look - yes, my first guess that the guy who looked so un-German ( a soccer player) was actually a Spaniard.
I've never been to Basque Country but many of those people in that youtube clip could easily pass as being of the British Isles,'especially in places like Wales, Ireland and southwest England. Their facial structures look very similar indeed.
There most be at least some truth to the theory that the earliest Britons may have migrated from the Iberian Peninsula.
There is a important segment of northern spanish population that look quite british, thats mainly seen among asturians, galicians and basques.
There is no connection in the way you want it to be! The fact is that Asturia, Galicia and Basque country are located in the north of Spain, so obviously have the highest frequency of people with light complexions, blonde/light brown hair or even red hair(especially the Galegos) in Spain and Iberia as a whole. Actually some 17% of northern adult Spaniards have blonde/fair hair, we could easily mistake a few for Northern Europeans including Brits. In those regions we meet from time to time, Nordic-looking people, but that doesn't mean they are the typical Spaniard. The same could said about northern Italy, there are also people there who might pass as Northern Europeans. Nacho doesn't look "typically British", but he could pass for a Western European which could include Brits too, he has blue eyes, light complexion. However to say that he only looks British is totally false. Redirect Notice
I've never been to Basque Country but many of those people in that youtube clip could easily pass as being of the British Isles,'especially in places like Wales, Ireland and southwest England. Their facial structures look very similar indeed.
There most be at least some truth to the theory that the earliest Britons may have migrated from the Iberian Peninsula.
You never been to Spain or are you acquainted with Spain? Nope. I have, several times and loved Valencia since the 80's. First of all, Spaniards as also a lot of Italian are generally, less pale, darker in complexion than British/Irish people. Their facial structure are much more refined, softer and they are in my opinion better-looking than Northern and Western Europeans. I have never met in person a Spaniard that could pass for a typical British/English person, but I believe there are some out there. The Iberian theory was drawn out mainly when it was believed that the R1b haplogroup originated in Iberia since it had such a high frequency in Basque country, however we now know that the truth was far from there. It originated in west Asia and entered Europe by way of the Balkans and progresively moved west until one branch ended up in Britain/Ireland and the other in Iberia. Those branches are different, one is R1b L21, the other is R1b DF27. If the earliest Britons hailed out of Iberia, they should have reflected the same genetical diversity of Iberia. It has been proven that from the Ice Age, the British and Irish were already different from those in Iberia or Balkans. I have partial English ancestry, but my father and his father were from south-eastern England. My paternal grand-father was a British citizen before he moved to America and took the American nationality, so I'm well acquainted also with people of English/British and of course Irish ancestry. [/quote]
You are just touchy that there is a heavy phenotypical connection between UK, Ireland, Western/NW france and Northern Iberia. Many faces are uncanny. Its like a pizza with the same base but different salsa.
That was a question, not an answer. This I did, since you were putting all dark-haired British and Irish as Spanish/Mediterraneans. Then again to you Ballack didn't look Spaniard/Italian since he has sort of a "Uralic-look" according to you.
Ballack is definitely not rugged or Cro-Magnon look.
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!!!) rather than to neihboring germanic countries of northern Europe (the north sea area to with the British isles belong since ever) such as Flemish, Dutch, Germans, Danish or Norviegians...[/quote]
