Are Finns, Hungarians, Russians and Eastern Slavs part 'Mongoloid'? (crime, people, black)

[Trimac20]

I've heard different theories, several theories suggesting that Finns and Russians as far west as Moscow have as much as 25-30% 'Mongoloid type' DNA. Of course there's no 'Asian' gene, but the genetic markers that are more common found among people who look for 'Mongoloid', such as the Kalmyks. Prior to the expansion of the Russian Empire, it seemed that the tribal peoples well west of the Ural were more Asian in appearance and spoke both Turkic and Urallic languages. The Sami, of course, show that if you go far north enough most everyone looks kind of like the Inuit.

Many Russians, Finns and even Scandinavians do indeed have slightly 'Asiatic' features, even those with blonde hair and blue eyes. Scandinavians, despite being seen as the 'epitome' of Nordic whiteness, sometimes have vaguely Asian features like more almond eyes. I saw some Russian tourists who looked almost 'mixed', but I don't think they were Central Asian. I suppose they could've been non ethnic Russians. I mean Stalin was a Georgian and he looked Turkic. Boris Yelsin also has pretty narrow eyes. Also the face tends to be flatter than say Germans.

I would say it varies a lot by region. Russians in St. Petersburg and Belarussians look more Slavic European, while of course Russians in Vologograd, let alone those East of the Urals, might be more likely to have non 'ethnic Russian' ancestors. The ethnic origin of Russians and the original of the Russian civilisation appears to be present day Ukraine.

[Ruth4Truth]

Oh good grief. Russians have a high percentage of Persian blood, meaning early Indo-European genetic markers (Scythian). It's still debated as to where Indo-European people originated; a few experts say Turkey, but the majority say the Black Sea steppes (modern south Ukraine). Due to various waves of invasions by Asiatic peoples some have a small percentage of Asian DNA. More recently, though (the last wave of Asians were the Mongols), there have been some inter-racial marriages, so you may see some European Russians with almond eyes.

The Saami don't look Inuit. They're of the White Sea type, a sub-set of European, except for some enclaves of darker Samoyed types. Western Russia, prior to the migration north of Slavic people, was mainly Finnic tribes (speaking Urallic languages) and Balts. The only Turkic speakers were in the south, around the Crimean peninsula.

I've never seen any Scandinavians with even remotely Asian features.

Turkic peoples originated in Manchuria, along with the Mongols. (The Huns originated there and originally were Turkic-speaking.) Most Turkic peoples look "Mongoloid". Stalin was a purely Caucasus type, unrelated to anything Asiatic. Don't confuse "Turkic" with Turkey, where the original population was Indo-European tribes (like the Armenians), before the Turkic invasion from farther East in Asia, and still is predominantly Indo-European in type.

St. Petersburg actually was populated by a Finnic tribe, the Ingrians, before Peter the Great decided to make the delta of the Neva River (very rich fishing ground, originally) his window on the West. There are still a few Ingrians left in the city. Peter imported Russians and Germans to the area.

The Belorussians are genetically Balts. The homeland of the Balts used to extend from present-day Latvia, Lithuania and the Kalinin region (old Prussia, pre-German Prussia) to east of Moscow, and down to the north of Ukraine. Russians are the East Slavs. Poles, Ukrainians, Czechs, Slovaks are West Slavs. Everyone south of Hungary and Romania are South Slavs.

Stephen Oppenheimer has several books out on the peopling of the world and genetics, if you'd like to get into more detail about some of this. Fascinating stuff.

[ben86]

Another day, another Trimac race thread...

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by ben86

Another day, another Trimac race thread...

Oh, is that what this was?

[twnxn]

I don't know if I would say that Russians, Scandinavians, Finns and Eastern Slavs are "part Mongoloid". But, it is interesting to note that Finns, Estonians have a fair amount of males with genetic YDNA Haplogroup N (okay, I will get a little technical if you do not understand human genetics). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N_(Y-DNA) (also see related links). These are genes passed one from fathers to sons over generations. There are also portions (males only) of Russians, Latvians, Lithuanians and even some Swedes who have Haplogroup N. Haplogroup N is direct descendant from Haplogroup NO which originated somewhere in Central or East Asia. Many Chinese and East Asian males are part of Haplogroup O which is also a direct descendant of Haplogroup NO. Thus, in a way Haplogroup N and Haplogroup O are brothers of each other. Haplogroup N does not really show up in Hungarians. Just that the Finnish language and the Hungarian languages are classified as Uralic language and not Indo-European (but that is language which does not necessarily translate to genes).

I have had the great fortune to travel to Sweden, Finland, Russia (St. Petersburg area), Estonia, as well as Hungary, if there are any Asiatic features it might be slight-like checkbones or the eyes in some. NOTE: actor Matt Damon who is partially Finnish on his mother's side- notice his eyes (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Damon). NOTE: actriess Renee Zellweger who is part Sami and Finnish on her mother's side-notice her eyes (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9e_Zellweger).

[Ruth4Truth]

The genetic picture in the Baltic region isn't so simple. The original people to migrate into the area after the last Ice Age were Finno-Ugric reindeer herders, though they weren't that closely related to the Finns. Genetically they appear to be an offshoot of a more easterly Finnic tribe, the Mari. But overlaid onto that are later migrants whose characteristic marker is R1a, the Indo-European (Scythian) marker shared by the Russians.

[Trimac20]

Asia Finest Discussion Forum > Are the Finns the Mongolians of Europe?

I think the idea that Finns came from Mongolian is of course ridiculous and nobody would believe that today (though mummies and skeletons with 'Caucasian' features have been found in China), but I think Finland at least has a larger 'admixture' of genetics not commonly found in Europe than their Scandinavian neighbours. I feel the Sami/tribal presence is strongest in Finland too (northern and central part).

And for those who think the Sami are completely 'Europoid' in appearance:

[Ruth4Truth]

The Xinjiang mummies are of Indo-European people who migrated from the Russian steppes into Asia, and created a civilization in the Central Asian desert. Some branched off and migrated south to Iran, and eventually, north India.

There's a variety among the Saami, but that kid looks Euro to me.

[Trimac20]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

The Xinjiang mummies are of Indo-European people who migrated from the Russian steppes into Asia, and created a civilization in the Central Asian desert. Some branched off and migrated south to Iran, and eventually, north India.

There's a variety among the Saami, but that kid looks Euro to me.

My 1/2 Asian nieces look more Euro than he does. Obviously I'm not saying he looks all Asian, but he at least looks 'mixed' as do many Sami.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

My 1/2 Asian nieces look more Euro than he does. Obviously I'm not saying he looks all Asian, but he at least looks 'mixed' as do many Sami.

You must be focussing on the eyes? I'm not seeing that they're clearly Asiatic. But you're right, there is no one Saami type. If you ever want to see some darker, Samoyed-type Saami, go to the village of Maasi, on the Norwegian side of the border with Finland. The people there are very different from other Saami.