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Old 06-17-2012, 04:05 PM
 
Location: American Expat
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Fact check: The wealthy already pay more tax

Quote:
The 10% of households with the highest incomes pay more than half of all federal taxes. They pay more than 70% of federal income taxes, according to the...
Does anybody know the numbers for Europe, perhaps in particular for France?
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
28,631 posts, read 14,871,924 times
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Those are federal income taxes, not all federal taxes and certainly not all taxes.

Zombie Tax Lies - NYTimes.com

Yes, it's a liberal source but that doesn't mean the numbers are wrong. From the ultimate source of the link:

Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy

The study, released on November 18, 2009, shows that on average, state and local tax systems require the poorest taxpayers to pay the highest effective tax rates


Not sure where to find European number off my head.
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:11 PM
 
Location: American Expat
2,129 posts, read 2,384,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Those are federal income taxes, not all federal taxes and certainly not all taxes.

Zombie Tax Lies - NYTimes.com

Yes, it's a liberal source but that doesn't mean the numbers are wrong. From the ultimate source of the link:

Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy

The study, released on November 18, 2009, shows that on average, state and local tax systems require the poorest taxpayers to pay the highest effective tax rates


Not sure where to find European number off my head.

But this has been quoted by CNN and other major news outlets.


I'm not sure what you want to tell me here:

Quote:
The study, released on November 18, 2009, shows that on average, state and local tax systems require the poorest taxpayers to pay the highest effective tax rates
Quote:
The "Top 10% pay 70%" dosen't have anything to do with this. 70% as in the total raw amount. If I earn 1 million, then the amount I pay in taxes is more than somebody who makes 50k and pays 50%. I'm not talking about the % a person pays in taxes.

Somebody argued it's not the same in Europe and I don't believe that, but I can not find anything about this.
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Old 06-22-2012, 05:02 PM
 
Location: The Silver State (from the UK)
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The US tax system is totally rediculous in its complexity. Statistics would show the burden of taxes more even spread in European countries because they are taxed at source rather than here where people pay state taxes, sales taxes etc on top of federal. The claim that the top 10% pay 90% of taxes is an inaccurate claim perpetuated by the right wing noise machine.

The US system taxes less on the whole - its current tax take is one of the lowest in history compared to GDP and wealth has become more centralized. 90% of American households have had 40% of their wealth disappear since 2007 whilst the top 10% have seen an increase. All this whilst we demonize the public sector

I very much doubt the same is true in much of Europe. The wealthiest will always pay more under a progressive tax system and if you believe in the law of diminishing marginal utility so they should.
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Old 06-22-2012, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
The "Top 10% pay 70%" dosen't have anything to do with this. 70% as in the total raw amount. If I earn 1 million, then the amount I pay in taxes is more than somebody who makes 50k and pays 50%. I'm not talking about the % a person pays in taxes.
True, those are different statistics. But still, I suspect the 70% is federal income taxes, which is only type of tax of many. from source:

They pay more than 70% of federal income taxes, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Quote:
Somebody argued it's not the same in Europe and I don't believe that, but I can not find anything about this.
If the tax rates are the same but the income distribution is more equal, then the wealthy will pay a smaller fraction of taxes.
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:00 AM
 
4,879 posts, read 3,196,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian6479 View Post
The US tax system is totally rediculous in its complexity. Statistics would show the burden of taxes more even spread in European countries because they are taxed at source rather than here where people pay state taxes, sales taxes etc on top of federal. The claim that the top 10% pay 90% of taxes is an inaccurate claim perpetuated by the right wing noise machine.

The US system taxes less on the whole - its current tax take is one of the lowest in history compared to GDP and wealth has become more centralized. 90% of American households have had 40% of their wealth disappear since 2007 whilst the top 10% have seen an increase. All this whilst we demonize the public sector

I very much doubt the same is true in much of Europe. The wealthiest will always pay more under a progressive tax system and if you believe in the law of diminishing marginal utility so they should.
in ireland the average public servant earns 40% more than the average private sector worker
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:45 PM
 
Location: American Expat
2,129 posts, read 2,384,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian6479 View Post
The US tax system is totally rediculous in its complexity. Statistics would show the burden of taxes more even spread in European countries because they are taxed at source rather than here where people pay state taxes, sales taxes etc on top of federal. The claim that the top 10% pay 90% of taxes is an inaccurate claim perpetuated by the right wing noise machine.

The US system taxes less on the whole - its current tax take is one of the lowest in history compared to GDP and wealth has become more centralized. 90% of American households have had 40% of their wealth disappear since 2007 whilst the top 10% have seen an increase. All this whilst we demonize the public sector

I very much doubt the same is true in much of Europe. The wealthiest will always pay more under a progressive tax system and if you believe in the law of diminishing marginal utility so they should.
Well, that's what you say. I have yet to find something that proves it's any different in Europe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
True, those are different statistics. But still, I suspect the 70% is federal income taxes, which is only type of tax of many. from source:

They pay more than 70% of federal income taxes, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

If the tax rates are the same but the income distribution is more equal, then the wealthy will pay a smaller fraction of taxes.
They mean the amount the government gets through income taxes.
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:48 PM
 
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The Beatles - Taxman (2009 Stereo Remaster) - YouTube Tax and Spend...tax and spend...etc. etc. etc.
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:00 PM
 
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Taxes are a complicated business in themselves. Everyone tries to find deductions for themselves, governments tries to close loopholes while keeping tax-incentives for stuff in place...it makes for quite complex rules in every country.

And every country have their own rules. Finding some kind of average for "Europe" or even just the EU would be a monumental undertaking. Some countries have high taxes, but also high deductions. Some countries do not actually pay the taxes the rules say they should (Greece).

I know the average tax paid in Norway is 25 %. The poor people (less than 24 000 U$ per year) pay less than 9 %. The top 25 % pay about 32 %. The top 5 % earners pay less tax, down towards 23 %, because their income tends to be from non-taxable sources.
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Old 06-28-2012, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Minnesota, USA
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I know this isn't the statistic you're looking for, but according to the 2011 Index of Economic Freedom by The Heritage Foundation and The Wall Street Journal, the government of France confiscates 44% of national GDP, Belgium 47%, and Denmark an incredible 49%. Meanwhile, the U.S. government only takes 27% of its GDP.
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