Breaking news: Greece to be downgrared to developing status

[the troubadour]

Originally Posted by DginnWonder

Right. I'm confused as to why the Portuguese are all going there. Maybe, HOPEFULLY, they can bring about the desperate changes needed for Angola.

Them saying to just take the money and leave is EXACTLY what they did in Portugal.

JUST WORK!

Portuguese tend to be going there to earn big money in the oil industry for the most part. I think they could be called ex pats instead of immigrants.
As I understand a number leave their family back home and fly back every so often. Crime and poverty as well as being very expensive is not really condusive for family living.

[DginnWonder]

Originally Posted by the troubadour

Portuguese tend to be going there to earn big money in the oil industry for the most part. I think they could be called ex pats instead of immigrants.
As I understand a number leave their family back home and fly back every so often. Crime and poverty as well as being very expensive is not really condusive for family living.

You're probably right, they are more ex-pats for the moment, but for all of its ugliness, Angola is the one with the jobs, not Portugal. This will make at least a few stay.

Edit: And I'm not sure Angola would be so quick to have these Portuguese just up and leave after striking it big in Luanda. The country isn't dumb. They will do something to make sure they stay or allow Angola to take som of that dough.

[jonsereed]

when the Greeks learm of this after their siesta they will no doubt take to the streets to protest....so what else is new?

[BMORE]

Can a deal just be made between Greece and its debitors? This is getting sad, how can the country that virtually birthed Western Socities collapse? Does anyone know the debt of Greece?

[Scotslass]

The government didn´t have the proper method to collect taxes, therefore there was a huge shortfall for years. Now they are paying the price for this error (thanks to their government). There was a recent documentary about Greece and it was a total eye opener on the scale of poverty and destruction that is happening in the country. Now they are trying to make up for their loss by making the most severe cuts in the public sector ever, leaving people unemployed, they have put the cost of health care up too. It is just one big huge domino effect.

[bale002]

Greece is mostly an eastern Mediterranean land and society that also, some 2,500 years ago, colonized some coastal areas of the western Mediterranean.

Greece historically has little or nothing to do with modern western Europe, except in the political fantasies of 17th-19th Century Europeans fighting against monarchies to establish what we call today democracy and as a military bulwark against Russia and the Muslims, mainly to protect eastern Mediterranean commerce (e.g. OIL and other commerce through the Suez Canal).

The main problem in contemporary Greece is lack of business competitiveness.

One of the main reasons for lack of business competitiveness is an insanely complex tax system, which, yes, does not function properly, and too high effective tax rates.

Tax evasion my butt: no reasonable human in Greece can even properly figure out how much tax to pay and where to pay it. If there is any tax evasion among hard-working small/medium-sized businesspeople it is simply a matter of survival.

That high level politicians and bureaucrats (i.e. socialists) are thieves is another matter.

And, no, you cannot form a proper opinion unless you yourself have actually run a small/medium-sized business in Greece or similar country (e.g. Italy, especially southern Italy, Bulgaria, even Russia, Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Israel, Palestine, Egypt, Libya, and NOT Germany, France, UK) for a number of years and tried to support a family doing it.

You get the picture?

Good Luck!

[cojoncillo]

Originally Posted by Scotslass

The government didn´t have the proper method to collect taxes, therefore there was a huge shortfall for years. Now they are paying the price for this error (thanks to their government). There was a recent documentary about Greece and it was a total eye opener on the scale of poverty and destruction that is happening in the country. Now they are trying to make up for their loss by making the most severe cuts in the public sector ever, leaving people unemployed, they have put the cost of health care up too. It is just one big huge domino effect.

Scot

Greeks have been doctoring their accounts since before entry into the EEC and EVERYBODY KNEW ABOUT IT. They will continue doing so, and they won't be downgraded or expelled from the euro or the EEC. Why? Because Greece is the founding member of this invention called Europe...

The EEC won't drop Greece, it would be like abandoning Bizantium again....maybe there's some bad conscience..

Yes, they are a disaster, but they have always been a disaster politically, tell Romans..

They might have to eat black olives, carobs and figs for some years, but they will always be part of the European developed world...because, if they are not Europe, who the hell is Europe?

This new thing called Europe needs symbols, what is more symbolic than Greece?

[Larry Siegel]

Originally Posted by Stumbler.

I never knew people had done that before! Downgrade countries in status from developed to developing? Have any other examples happened?

MSCI downgraded Malaysia from developed to emerging in 1998 when they imposed capital controls. I believe they downgraded Argentina from emerging to frontier more recently for the same reason.

[tijlover]

They must be getting pretty desperate in Greece, as I read an article in the paper last week where thieves are hunting, high and low, for copper wiring to strip which they sell to the Chinese.

It has even effected the subway there, all that copper stripping! And other valuable metals!

Let's hope Greece doesn't become another Somalia!