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Interesting thread.
Here is the opinion of a Greek:
I wouldn't say (from cultural, not geografic point of view) that Greece is fully a Western country. It followed a different historic route from the rest European nations. It is not a near eastern country, it is something unique, which makes her exotic and interesting. I would say it is mostly a Balkan country. Notes:
1. Yes, ancient Greece, is the craddle of western civilization.
2. From 395 AD that Roman Empire split between East-West it followed a different road.
3a. 395-1450 part of the Byzantine Empire: What western europeans call "dark ages" for Greece it was Glorious Ages. Byzantine people (unlike Byzantine Emperors) were very hostile towards western Europeans. Byzantium was a Christian Orthodox state, not Christian Catholic.
3b. During Byzantine times, many Slavic, Albanian, Asia Minors and Wlach people emigrated to what is now the Greek state.
4a. c.1450-1830: Mainland Greece part of the Ottoman Empire. These are the Greek "Dark Ages" the same time when in Europe was Rennaisance, Enlightment etc. Northern Greece was liberated from the Ottoman Turks in 1912.
4b. c.1200 until 1500-1800: Greek islands conquested by Italian city-states.
5. 1944-1949: A bloody civil war between nationalists and the huge communist rebel organization EAM. Greece along with Yugoslavia and Russia are the only European nations with such a massive and popular communist movement. (*) Finally nationalists won only with the help of UK troops and US material help.(**)
(*) Many of the polititians that brought Greece today to such a mess were EAM members in their youth.
(**) During December 1944, Greek legitimate government controlled only some blocks in the center of Athens.
if Greece is west, where is east of Europe? Turkey?
East of Europe is Turkey minus a small section and Russia east of the Ural Mountains. Also anything east of the Caspian Sea.
Basically, Asia is east of Europe
Interesting thread.
Here is the opinion of a Greek:
3a. 395-1450 part of the Byzantine Empire: What western europeans call "dark ages" for Greece it was Glorious Ages. Byzantine people (unlike Byzantine Emperors) were very hostile towards western Europeans. Byzantium was a Christian Orthodox state, not Christian Catholic.
3b. During Byzantine times, many Slavic, Albanian, Asia Minors and Wlach people emigrated to what is now the Greek state.
4a. c.1450-1830: Mainland Greece part of the Ottoman Empire. These are the Greek "Dark Ages" the same time when in Europe was Rennaisance, Enlightment etc. Northern Greece was liberated from the Ottoman Turks in 1912.
.
The Byzantines where the victims of the raid and sacking of the Crusaders that came peacefully on their way to liberate the Holy Lands. The first fall of Constantinople was because of such actions of the savage Crusaders of the west that massacred their own Christian brothers in that city. From that point on, all the remaining arts, culture and science that was in Constantinople was transferred (to put it politely) to Venice and points beyond to spark the Rennaisance. In 1453 Constantinople fell to the Turks and indeed afterwards was the Dark Ages of Greece. They were liberated in 1821 not 1912.
There were peoples that moved around during the Byzantine Empire and all over the Med. Sea, but I wouldn't call modern day Greeks or their culture Slavs, Albanians, or Turks. They are as you stated unique and some of that ancient blood still flows. In fact, their is genetic DNA elements that sets Greeks apart from their neighbors with the core being Greece of today!
if Greece is west, where is east of Europe? Turkey?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildWestDude
East of Europe is Turkey minus a small section and Russia east of the Ural Mountains. Also anything east of the Caspian Sea.
Basically, Asia is east of Europe
Tomahawk19 please correct me if I'm wrong, but I suppose with "west", tomahawk19 meant "western Europe", in accordance with the thread title: Is Greece part of western Europe?
If Greece is part of western Europe, then geographically speaking, eastern Europe would start with Turkey eastwards.
Geographically, a tiny part of Turkey is in Europe, but they are not Europeans. They came from central asia not a long time ago (in European terms).
Turkey is Asia, near East.
Greece is not East Europe.
A as part of a very old convention, all Mediterranean nations in the South Med are part of Western Europe and later EEC, even if greographically they don't belong to Western Europe. For example, Malta and Cyprus (remnants of Byzantium and religious military orders) are Western Europe.
The Byzantines where the victims of the raid and sacking of the Crusaders that came peacefully on their way to liberate the Holy Lands. The first fall of Constantinople was because of such actions of the savage Crusaders of the west that massacred their own Christian brothers in that city. From that point on, all the remaining arts, culture and science that was in Constantinople was transferred (to put it politely) to Venice and points beyond to spark the Rennaisance. In 1453 Constantinople fell to the Turks and indeed afterwards was the Dark Ages of Greece. They were liberated in 1821 not 1912.
There were peoples that moved around during the Byzantine Empire and all over the Med. Sea, but I wouldn't call modern day Greeks or their culture Slavs, Albanians, or Turks. They are as you stated unique and some of that ancient blood still flows. In fact, their is genetic DNA elements that sets Greeks apart from their neighbors with the core being Greece of today!
Quite sad what crusaders, and not precisely crusaders, did to Byzantium. Their riches are not only in Venice, here in Barcelona we have plenty of them since it was once part of the Aragonese empire and Catalans killed once most of their population. We have a king buried in a porphid bathtub stolen from Byzantium. A shame.
In 1453 Constantinople fell to the Turks and indeed afterwards was the Dark Ages of Greece. They were liberated in 1821 not 1912.
Greek revolution erupted in 1821. In 1830 a Greek state formed that included Peloponessus and Rumeli. Thousands of Greeks still lived under Turkish rule, outside of the newly Greek state. The liberation of Greece concluded in 1947, after WWII, when Rhodes was liberated from Italians.
Greek revolution erupted in 1821. In 1830 a Greek state formed that included Peloponessus and Rumeli. Thousands of Greeks still lived under Turkish rule, outside of the newly Greek state. The liberation of Greece concluded in 1947, after WWII, when Rhodes was liberated from Italians.
That would be more correct.
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Turkey?
väst
