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Old 10-14-2012, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Turku, Finland
317 posts, read 409,249 times
Reputation: 288

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Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
If I wanted to defend Russia, then this is very easy - the national ranking is calculated by simply combining all data. 400 from Asian or Caucasian republic + 550 from some Russian region /2 = 475. While it is a lot higher, if population is taken into account.

This test is also probably suffers from good schools giving it to the best students, while ordinary schools don't care. Otherwise, Moscow wouldn't score that much higher than all other regions - it should actually be much lower than most, thanks to immigrants.


This test is alien for Russians.

Some criticism:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...q2OvKAEMKAQDQA

students sometimes just misunderstood what the item writer meant to ask.

it becomes apparent what the competence values actually measure: no more and no less than the number of right responses.

This suggests that little bias is needed to distort test results far beyond their nominal

disparities in student sampling
one-dimensional ?competence? scale is neither technically convincing nor culturally fair.

The ways students react to the lack of time vary considerably between countries:

Dutch students try to answer almost every item. Towards the end of the
test they become hasty and increasingly resort to guessing.

Austrian and German students skip many items, and they do so from the
?rst block on, which leaves them enough time to ?nish the test without

Greek students, in contrast, seem to be taken by surprise by the time
better than in Portugal and not far away from the USA and Italy. In the
last block, however, non-reached items and missing responses add up to
35%, bringing Greece down to one of the last ranks.

Between-country variance may be due for instance to school curricula, cul-
tural background, test languange, or to a combination of several factors. This
factors are particularly in?uential in PISA because students have little time
(about 2'20? per item) and reading texts are too long.

If the languages di?er, correlations are at
best about 0.96, as for the Czech and Slovak Republics. If the languages do not
belong to the same stem, correlations are hardly larger than 0.94. While some
countries belong to large clusters, others like Japan and Korea are quite isolated
(no correlation larger than 0.90). These resultshave immediate implications for the validity of inter-country comparisons

Thirdly, it is clear from the outset that little can be learned when something
as complex as a school system is characterised by something as simple as the
average number of solved test items.


At least regional results in Russia are BS. That's expected, since sample size in each region is basically zero.
It's out of pure stunned amazement that I'm not going to even offer a counter argument. For the first time ever, RoL has posted an argument with evidence and reasoning to support his thesis. And not one single picture.

Let's leave it at that. At least I'm now somewhat reassured that the Russian curriculum doesn't consist only of picture books.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:32 PM
 
1,725 posts, read 2,055,117 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Smails View Post
At least I'm now somewhat reassured that the Russian curriculum doesn't consist only of picture books.
Most Russian textbooks are the complete opposite of American (and similar) - piles and piles of tough text.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Turku, Finland
317 posts, read 409,249 times
Reputation: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
Most Russian textbooks are the complete opposite of American (and similar) - piles and piles of tough text.
As I prefer to say "A thousand words is worth a thousand words."
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:14 PM
 
1,725 posts, read 2,055,117 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Smails View Post
As I prefer to say "A thousand words is worth a thousand words."
For education purposes - absolutely (but they induced sleep so hard...).

I couldn't help but wonder, while stuying US textbooks, full of useless pics - are they for totally braindead, or to charge the poor student more?
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:16 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,063 posts, read 106,896,974 times
Reputation: 115814
Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
I couldn't help but wonder, while stuying US textbooks, full of useless pics - are they for totally braindead, or to charge the poor student more?
My school textbooks didn't have pix.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:18 PM
 
Location: FIN
888 posts, read 1,584,815 times
Reputation: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post

And I was wondering if the tests from Saami schools measure up with other schools. Or if there's a difference in quality of education between rural and urban schools in general. But it sounds like there isn't. In Russia, there's a big difference in the quality of English teachers in small towns and rural areas, compared to bigger cities. I don't know about other subjects.
There are no public ranking lists of primary schools that i know of, i don't know if it's part of a problem or part of a solution. In any case, i'd love to answer your questions about Saami schools, as well as differences between rural and public with actual stats. Based on my own experiences, they are just about the same everywhere. Possible exception being Helsinki, which has some of the best, as well as some of the worst ones. Though being the capital and largest city, it obviously has the best choices for special and optional education. And even the worst ones aren't exactly terrible, the student body just might not be the easiest to deal with.

Some of the more rural schools obviously run with very limited resources, being very small and isolated.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:29 PM
 
1,725 posts, read 2,055,117 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
My school textbooks didn't have pix.
And you studied... literature? I don't know when they started to look like big format kids books (even college statistics textbook - and that's freaking math!). Not all of them, though - for example, one economics textbook I've got was spared. But another wasn't, though to the very slight extent.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:36 PM
 
Location: FIN
888 posts, read 1,584,815 times
Reputation: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
And you studied... literature? I don't know when they started to look like big format kids books (even college statistics textbook - and that's freaking math!). Not all of them, though - for example, one economics textbook I've got was spared. But another wasn't, though to the very slight extent.
Well, don't you know that sometimes a picture tells more then a thousand words
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:21 AM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,783,160 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
Most Russian textbooks are the complete opposite of American (and similar) - piles and piles of tough text.
And yet there were no Russian Nobel prize winner in 50 years. Lol.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:43 AM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,783,160 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
I rather take it to a propagandist idiot, who doesn't know what GDP is.
Behind Gabon my Russki friend. Maybe that's where you should go to learn? Lol
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