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View Poll Results: Is todays Russia, based on its culture and involvement in European politics, considered a part of Eu
YES 7 25.93%
NO 11 40.74%
IT'S COMPLICATED 9 33.33%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-13-2012, 09:42 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,101 posts, read 4,542,516 times
Reputation: 832

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Smails View Post
Hello, is anybody home, Grey? You're the one who responds to other peoples' valid points with the Google Translate version of "Learn the History!" in Russian. I'm simply taking up the challenge that you yourself have thrown down in this very thread.
Well, if we talk about it, I not started it, and I did answer not for you. Yes, it's difficult to explain in English. I can talk about it, if it is of interest to you, then create a theme.

 
Old 10-13-2012, 11:34 AM
 
2,924 posts, read 2,353,078 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
Let's start with the one who liberated from fascism? Peredete then the rest. But in any case, not to you or anyone else not to judge today, that was then. On each of your negative post can give the same negative of American history. So if you need it? Why did not you say on the subject? Or you just want to speak in negative terms about Russia and so on? you do not have a concept in many ways, what is there to say. Sometimes it seems that you are not even in the school attended. Sorry if obiidel
No. You attacked Poland in 1939 together with Hilter. That's how the WWII started, remember?
Are you surprised that many nations in Central Europe and many in the West view Russian as aggressors and opressors?
 
Old 10-13-2012, 12:41 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,151 posts, read 70,049,185 times
Reputation: 75968
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
No. You attacked Poland in 1939 together with Hilter. That's how the WWII started, remember?
Are you surprised that many nations in Central Europe and many in the West view Russian as aggressors and opressors?
Take it to the History forum, guys.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 12:44 PM
 
2,924 posts, read 2,353,078 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Take it to the History forum, guys.
That's not history, thats politics. In the past 70 years Russia has been a destructive and regressive power in European politics.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 12:56 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,151 posts, read 70,049,185 times
Reputation: 75968
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
That's not history, thats politics. In the past 70 years Russia has been a destructive and regressive power in European politics.
Whatever. Take it to "Politics" then. Or its own thread, in any case.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 01:05 PM
 
2,924 posts, read 2,353,078 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Whatever. Take it to "Politics" then. Or its own thread, in any case.
This is my thread. You can leave if you dont like it and start a new one on Buryats enjoing plasma TVs in the 90s and Chukchi iphones in the early 80s.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 01:40 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,151 posts, read 70,049,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
This is my thread. You can leave if you dont like it and start a new one on Buryats enjoing plasma TVs in the 90s and Chukchi iphones in the early 80s.
Exaggerating, as always. I said the people who said Russia had flatscreens, and who were surprised I didn't, were Buryats. I didn't say they were common in Buryatia, or anything. Still having a problem with the reading comprehension thing, I see.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 01:53 PM
 
2,924 posts, read 2,353,078 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Exaggerating, as always. I said the people who said Russia had flatscreens, and who were surprised I didn't, were Buryats. I didn't say they were common in Buryatia, or anything. Still having a problem with the reading comprehension thing, I see.
I know what you said and it does not make any sense. Plasma TV's as an American technology, were first introduced in American market in 1997 and 1998.
No plasma prior to that anywhere in the world. Even in Russia
 
Old 10-13-2012, 07:24 PM
 
14,990 posts, read 13,566,272 times
Reputation: 6895
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
And what do you think Soviet Union was in eyes of occupied nations like Czechs, Hungarians, Poles or Lithuanians? What was in in the eyes of Europeans who knew of soviet nuclear weapons being aimed at European cities?

Big part of Russia is located in Europe, no doubt yet it has not been a friendly presence in the past 60 years. Of course I am a Reagan fan. He was the president able to tackle Soviet Union and thanks to him this dark monstrosity is gone. Would you rather have soviet union alive today?
Help me lord, you are an American in the worst sense of this word. Let other cultured and intelligent Americans around here forgive me, but talking to dear you, brainwashed by Reagan's propaganda is like talking to brainwashed Soviet comrades. Two sides of the same medal, really.
Now I'll make one more feeble attempt to explain to you that European history doesn't start from the fifties and "American century."
It goes much-much further back which preludes the situation that led to the WWII and Russian occupation of Eastern Europe. Just in case you don't know that historically, in this particular part of the world ( Eastern Europe that is and Baltics,) Russia and Germany were two major European powers, that were expanding their influence in surrounding countries, claiming different territories for their population and money for their coffers. There is a reason you see, why there were plenty of Germans in Czechoslovakia and Poland, and why Finns still remember that they were once a part of the Russian empire. Wherever and whenever Russians would move out, lo and behold Germans would move in and vice versa, following old Russian proverb "свято место пусто не бывает" (The throne is never vacant.) Now as I've already explained it to you, initially, when Bismarck united Germany, he saw the future of German prosperity in close ties with Russia; in fact when asked what was the key to successful foreign policy of Germany, he said "Make a good treaty with Russia" and that's exactly what that old article in New-York Times was talking about - about the Teuton and Slav peacefully coexisting side by side according to Bismarck's vision. What he was wary about, was the future possibility of Russia getting a union with France, and that's precisely what took place later on in history, when his successors - German politicians - were not careful enough to follow his advice. From that point on, Russia and Germany basically got into two different warring camps, ( because I can't stress for you enough, Europe was not one happy family as you picture it for yourself, for long-long-long time,) and before the Tzarist Russia waved her last good-buy in direct connection with WWI, her last allies in Eurepe were France and Britain.
Now when Hitler came to power in Germany ( do I need to mention the payments on American loans that ALLIES, not Germans, owed to American banks after the WWI, and which Churchill asked American bankers to forgive. They were not in a rush to do that, and sure enough the payment of all these loans was burdened on Germany as a result of it, which as you can understand, didn't help economic situation in Germany a bit. And if this was not enough, the new American/British loans were poured on Germany lavishly, which helped Germany to re-militarize the country in less than 20 years after the havoc created by WWI. How the heck that was possible after Sommes and Verdin, when millions of Europeans died in the tranches and their politicians vowed "no more" is still a mystery, but that doesn't mean that Russians didn't take a note, watching what was unfolding in the West from behind their closed borders. And it doesn't mean that Russians were not aware that Hitler pointed in their direction and said "this is the land I want, and these are the people that I wish to destroy" in his book, written circa 1925. On another hand, they knew that not everything was peachy in the Western European kingdom; that the West was not one unified front and that Hitler had his own differences with the British and with the French.
So their initial reaction was to negotiate union with "traditional allies" of tzarist Russia - i.e. France and Britain, but those two politely declined the offer - meaning they didn't come to the agreement. More over, while Russians were watching those lavish American/British loans pouring for re-militarization of Germany, they've started suspecting all along that these countries ( America in particular) were looking forward to deadly fight between Russia and Germany. The Munich agreement, with appeasement of Hitler's appetites only confirmed their suspicions, so they did the next logical thing - signed the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact and started loading up on each and every territory available to them in the near-by countries, be that Poland, Baltic countries, Western Ukraine and what's not. Because - as a rule of a thumb was telling them, whatever will not serve their interests, will serve German interests as it always used to be, or as one of the first Russian scientists said long time ago, referring to the basic rules of Chemistry - "if something will diminish in one place, it will subjoin in the other."
So after the national disaster that the WWII was for Russians, it would be incorrect to say that all those countries that they've invaded later ( and held for a long time after the WWII,) didn't serve German interests - they sure did; (as I've already said - "if something will diminish in one place, it will subjoin in the other.") And since the WWI clearly didn't put an end to a slaughter in Europe which ended up on Russian territory, this was quite predictable Russian reaction in their inornate manner; "We are not going to look who did what, who is right who is wrong, but we will stomp you all for our own future comfort and security, since you over there didn't figure things out on your own even after the WWI."
I'd say quite normal reaction from Russians, taking in consideration that WWII was nearly fatal for them.
Do I feel happy about this turn of events? No of course, but we don't live in a fairy-tale, although for the West, the post-war times, when Russia was sitting on top of all those gained territories, secure and powerful - for the West ( America including) those were the most prosperous times, almost fairy-tale like.
As for the "monstrosity being gone" with the fall of the Soviet Union, I am absolutely not convinced about it; in fact I believe that the New Russians are more shrewd and kniving than Soviet leaders.
Don't be afraid of Russia, when it's rattling its sabres, when it's stable and secure; at that point the world is usually stable and secure as well. Be afraid of her, when she is unstable or insecure; that's when a lot of changes in the world are about to come, and not necessarily for the best.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 07:26 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,151 posts, read 70,049,185 times
Reputation: 75968
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
I know what you said and it does not make any sense. Plasma TV's as an American technology, were first introduced in American market in 1997 and 1998.
No plasma prior to that anywhere in the world. Even in Russia
Plasma TV's were invented in Japan. Japan is often out in front. The US trails behind. I think the plasma TV issue was covered on another thread.
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