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Ruth, ethnic Russians ( those who emigrated after the revolution) live mostly in Wash. DC area - that's where their Russian Foreign Orthodox Church is. ( Yeah, even Church managed to split after those events and the Foreign Russian Church refused to recognize Moscow's Metropolit because he cooperated with KGB - the whole church did, according to their beliefs.)
I think by now they've reconciled their differences.
It was the priest of the Russ Orthodox Church in Shanghai (to which everyone in Harbin had been evacuated, at one point), who chose San Francisco as a destination for the community. And there have been two churches there for a long time; one was affiliated with the Moscow Patriarchate, the other was the "Russian Church Abroad", RCA.
This relates, because it's about the Orthodox Church, a topic rebel raised here first, as I recall. OK, end of digression.
It was the priest of the Russ Orthodox Church in Shanghai (to which everyone in Harbin had been evacuated, at one point), who chose San Francisco as a destination for the community. And there have been two churches there for a long time; one was affiliated with the Moscow Patriarchate, the other was the "Russian Church Abroad", RCA.
This relates, because it's about the Orthodox Church, a topic rebel raised here first, as I recall. OK, end of digression.
I am not a topic police. That was interesting. Go on.
Well, there's not much more to tell, but just fyi, Russians created the city of Harbin under the last Czar, as part of a project to build a shortcut on the Trans-Siberian railroad through China to Vladivostok, thereby shortening the trip from Moscow by a day and a half, or so. Harbin was just a fishing village in Manchuria at the time. Russian architecture can still be seen there, and there's still a Russian minority in the area. They had their own engineering institute there. During the Revolution (which took 5 years to reach from Europe all the way to Vladivostok), refugees flooded into the new city. When WWII geared up, and the Japanese seized Manchuria, Russians there and in Western China (Xinjiang) were sent to Shanghai, along with Westerners from all around China. Then as the war and the Japanese advanced, it became necessary for everyone to abandon China altogether.
So the priest of the Orthodox Church proposed San Francisco as a refuge for his flock. Everyone agreed. The lucky ones got US visas, but others didn't; families were split up, and a lot of people got visas for various places in Latin America, from where they eventually did get visas to join the community in San Francisco and Berkeley. In San Fran they organized an alumni organization of the Harbin Russian engineering institute, and proceeded eventually to develop property around the City, and eventually built a grand gold-domed church (RCA) in the middle of the main part of the community. Someone told me the Russian Church Abroad got its start in Alaska, in the Russian communities there, back in the 1800s.
The 2 churches in San Fran are still active, but those generations from China have passed away, and many of their kids/grandkids have dispersed. The community is much more diverse now, with Jewish emigration from Russia, people from the Caucasus, and a smattering of other minorities.
Well, there's not much more to tell, but just fyi, Russians created the city of Harbin under the last Czar, as part of a project to build a shortcut on the Trans-Siberian railroad through China to Vladivostok, thereby shortening the trip from Moscow by a day and a half, or so. Harbin was just a fishing village in Manchuria at the time. Russian architecture can still be seen there, and there's still a Russian minority in the area. They had their own engineering institute there. During the Revolution (which took 5 years to reach from Europe all the way to Vladivostok), refugees flooded into the new city. When WWII geared up, and the Japanese seized Manchuria, Russians there and in Western China (Xinjiang) were sent to Shanghai, along with Westerners from all around China. Then as the war and the Japanese advanced, it became necessary for everyone to abandon China altogether.
So the priest of the Orthodox Church proposed San Francisco as a refuge for his flock. Everyone agreed. The lucky ones got US visas, but others didn't; families were split up, and a lot of people got visas for various places in Latin America, from where they eventually did get visas to join the community in San Francisco and Berkeley. In San Fran they organized an alumni organization of the Harbin Russian engineering institute, and proceeded eventually to develop property around the City, and eventually built a grand gold-domed church (RCA) in the middle of the main part of the community. Someone told me the Russian Church Abroad got its start in Alaska, in the Russian communities there, back in the 1800s.
The 2 churches in San Fran are still active, but those generations from China have passed away, and many of their kids/grandkids have dispersed. The community is much more diverse now, with Jewish emigration from Russia, people from the Caucasus, and a smattering of other minorities.
That was very interesting, thanks for sharing.
I answered the OP: It's complicated. I don't think of Russians as Europeans; I think of them as Russian.
I know it's sort of a cop-out, but if any country deserves its own designation, it's Russia
Western Russia is not European. It is outside europes influence and is not part of the eu. They may aswell be on another continent for all I care. I have never ever met a Russian in my life and I could get to NYC easier than Moscow if I tried. There are no flights to Russia from the island of Ireland. I don't care if it's on the European yechtonic plate, it's not European. They have their own culture.
What has being part of the EU to do with being European? Or having met Russians or not? Or whether there are flights from a very small country to Russia?
Russia is different from Western Europe, but so are many other countries in the East.
It just shows that Russia has very little influence on the everyday average person in Europe.
Not in "Europe," but in Ireland, in your neck of woods.
However go to London and see who is buying third of real estate there, who brings billions of pounds in British coffers and who stir political controversies there with claims of political asylum and the rest.
And while you are at that, ask "average persons" of certain nations in Europe whether they had any "influence" from Russia, when they were scrambling for gas during winter, when Russia had dispute with Ukraine over it. Then think about all this missile hoopla directed at Europe, Russia - whatever, I'm not going to get into details now. You'll see a different picture from the one you originally presented.
Not in "Europe," but in Ireland, in your neck of woods.
However go to London and see who is buying third of real estate there, who brings billions of pounds in British coffers and who stir political controversies there with claims of political asylum and the rest.
And these are your examples of Russian influence on Europe? LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
And while you are at that, ask "average persons" of certain nations in Europe whether they had any "influence" from Russia, when they were scrambling for gas during winter, when Russia had dispute with Ukraine over it. Then think about all this missile hoopla directed at Europe, Russia - whatever, I'm not going to get into details now. You'll see a different picture from the one you originally presented.
He is simply asserting that for the most part Russians are not a part of European cultural and political life. Yes, Europe is dependent on Russian gas and Middle East oil. Are the regions therefore involved in European life? LOL
Erasure, Europe loves Russians as long as they are not aiming they nuclear weapons or running around with machine guns. LOL
And these are your examples of Russian influence on Europe? LOL
He is simply asserting that for the most part Russians are not a part of European cultural and political life. Yes, Europe is dependent on Russian gas and Middle East oil. Are the regions therefore involved in European life? LOL
Erasure, Europe loves Russians as long as they are not aiming they nuclear weapons or running around with machine guns. LOL
Russia has been part of cultural life in Europe until 1917; obviously after that it changed.
Politically Russia was affecting Europe through the last century as well.
As for Russia "influencing Europe" culturally - it shouldn't even be a case, because Russians are a younger nation comparably to Western European nations, so influence should obviously come from Western Europe ( if any), not the other way around.
To answer your question OP: No, I don't consider Russians "European"
And in response to the premise of your question: No, I don't consider myself "European" either. I'm a Finn.
Perhaps you could ask the NAFTA citizens on this board what they think: do they consider Guatemalans NAFTAese?
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