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Old 10-16-2012, 09:44 AM
 
14,957 posts, read 13,527,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owenc View Post
Obviously that is a city school. In the UK we do not have schools that size, we have loads of schools with around 1000 pupils. In the USA they do not have different academic levels so they just put everyone into the same school.
I am glad our schools are small as I could not cope with going to a school with 3,000 pupils, its too big and theres really no need for it.
Owenc, can you please tell us more about schools with different academic levels ( how does it work)?
Is it common system in Europe?
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:45 AM
 
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Reputation: 6885
Russiaonline, can you tell us more about musical school in Russia - (I assume they still exist)
How does education there works?
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:17 AM
 
2,032 posts, read 2,404,907 times
Reputation: 1498
Quote:
Originally Posted by owenc View Post
Obviously that is a city school. In the UK we do not have schools that size, we have loads of schools with around 1000 pupils. In the USA they do not have different academic levels so they just put everyone into the same school.
I am glad our schools are small as I could not cope with going to a school with 3,000 pupils, its too big and theres really no need for it.
Owen,
What do you mean by the US not having "different academic levels"?
The UK doesn't have very many large cities (the Twin Cities metro area, for example, would be the second largest urban area in all of the UK, at least according to Wikipedia) and each school district has a much smaller catchment area in terms of area in the UK; these are why schools tend to be smaller than in the US.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:35 AM
 
1,730 posts, read 1,697,301 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpv View Post
I used to prepare kids for the EGE. At least in English language section, EGE administration had to lower the passing score because so few students were passing it.
Subject tests is a different matter - they are admission only tests, not graduation.

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In any case, EGE/SAT/ACT are more indicative of how well students take a standardized test
A skill that Russians lack infinitely more than Americans.

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by the way, I found different data - 73%
Even that is miserable.

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The reason I say 63% college-readiness is impressive is that it is probably about how many students will go to college in the first place
No, that's the percent of kids, who can possibly go to college, judging by test results.

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some of whom told me that they make very low salaries
Until recently teacher salaries were totally inadequate. The government has simply "forgotten" to index them by inflation.

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not enough books, old texts, and so on
That's their fetish - to teach not with textbooks, but with original texts, including newspapers. USA Today gets old pretty fast.

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it is my view that the examples given thus far are atypical--you disagree (thus the thread).
I gave very typical examples. While in this thread, you gave absolutely not typical US schools - and I did the same.

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Most EC activities in Russia are through a "club" system, which makes participation less likely due to transport, time, and money.
Before computer use became universal, these "clubs" were EVERYWHERE, and provided EVERYTHING imaginable (music, weaving, cooking, programming, robotics, kiting, avia-modelling...). Now their numbers... declined, but there's still no problem getting ECs. If there's demand...

Vladivostok has at least 8 (probably more - that's from some online catalog) public children music (or music + some other performance arts) schools. There's no need to go to some far away location.

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There is almost no high school sports and fine arts infrastructure to speak of in most Russian schools.
What if a stadium is located outside the school building? You don't seem to mind it when it's close enough. In Russia lots of ECs are close enough.

Public children arts schools in Vladivostok - at least 19. Sport schools - at least 27.

Private ECs are often cheap too.

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We are discussing high school conditions, not municipal or private ones.
Like I said: you are trying to judge Russia by metrics that don't work here.

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Regarding your music school argument: I believe in well-rounded students who have real access and opportunity to partake in well-organized EC activities.
That's exactly what I'm talking about - a general school is unlikely to match a specialized school.

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You're calling the presence of a high school marching band "creating zombies"? Why?! This I have to hear
Because they look like zombies, and because there's no other logical explanation for a high-school to have such band. This is also one of the things (another being competitive sports) that come to mind, when someone says that US schools are "all flash, no substance".

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For me, infrastructure pertains to the conditions under which students attend school and the facilities and opportunities contained therein. I think the photos do a pretty good job of reflecting those things, don't you?
Good enough. But we've already compared some schools - nothing will change if the number doubles. Or do you really think that I've run out of nice schools already?

Anyway, I've said enough in the previous post. If you continue to propagandistically post pics of top schools - I'll post pics of schools from the bottom of usnews.com rating.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:57 AM
 
1,730 posts, read 1,697,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owenc View Post
That isn't much different to schools here. Although that looks to be primary school age.
That's Russian tradition - to not photo older pupils.

Quote:
Obviously that is a city school. In the UK we do not have schools that size, we have loads of schools with around 1000 pupils.
Russian schools have 300-800 kids (1-11 grade combined). But that one is a much larger exception.

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I am glad our schools are small as I could not cope with going to a school with 3,000 pupils, its too big and theres really no need for it.
I remember we were unhappy, when our school grew to 300.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:02 AM
 
2,032 posts, read 2,404,907 times
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The only issue I have with your post (meaning, the only point worth responding to) is that the schools I've been posting are typical for Minneapolis metro schools. I even posted the lowest-performing school (or one of them) in Minneapolis. After all, that is the topic of the thread.

By the way, I'm waiting to know which American public schools you have been to. I think that would add some perspective to this discussion. So I ask again: Which American public schools have you been to?
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:09 AM
 
1,730 posts, read 1,697,301 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Russiaonline, can you tell us more about musical school in Russia - (I assume they still exist)
How does education there works?
They exist, and from what I've heard - they are no different from Soviet schools. Which means - TOUGH. But not always - there are very lax schools, of course.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:16 AM
 
1,730 posts, read 1,697,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpv View Post
Which American public schools have you been to?
Undergrad+ only, sorry. But I wouldn't extrapolate my humble experience to a 300 mln country anyway.

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After all, that is the topic of the thread.
The thread was about that there are no schools in Russia that can match what you post here. First two schools are matched (actually, all of your examples combined don't match that school in Moscow ).

So, I've successfully countered your attack. Continuing makes no sense, and is therefore boring.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:43 AM
 
2,032 posts, read 2,404,907 times
Reputation: 1498
Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
Undergrad+ only, sorry. But I wouldn't extrapolate my humble experience to a 300 mln country anyway.


The thread was about that there are no schools in Russia that can match what you post here. First two schools are matched (actually, all of your examples combined don't match that school in Moscow ).

So, I've successfully countered your attack. Continuing makes no sense, and is therefore boring.
Well, by the way you write on these forums, I'm surprised you'd go to the US at all, unless someone bound you and forced you on the plane (if that happened, my sincere condolences; didn't mean to make light, I'm sure it was traumatic).

I think that your not having been to an American school would make it difficult to act as though you know much about American schools; I would also think that you wouldn't really know what typical schools are or aren't (osmosis through computer, perhaps?!). I do find it odd that you discount my experience in dozens of Russian schools, where I worked closely with local teachers, observed lessons, and spent much time. In short, I'm posting from experience and you're posting from Yandex. (Come to think of it, I'm not convinced you've been to many Russian public schools recently...have you?)

To clarify, I never wrote there were no schools in Russia that can match the ones I posted in these terms; there are surely a few (I did say I hadn't seen many public schools in Vladivostok, with one or two exceptions -- #6 and the Business "Incubator" in Tihiya, that could compare). I said that the infrastructures of typical schools in the two places were not the same. This can be seen, at least in part, through pictures (again, thus the thread). For instance, the first school you posted ("Agri-Business School" showed me a lot).

Somehow I figured you'd get bored easily with this thread...
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:56 AM
 
1,730 posts, read 1,697,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpv View Post
Well, by the way you write on these forums
Didn't you notice that I mostly rebuff anti-Russian propaganda? My nick sure provides a hint.

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I think that your not having been to an American school would make it difficult to act as though you know much about American schools
I haven't been to almost 100% of Russian schools either. The same surely applies to you.

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In short, I'm posting from experience and you're posting from Yandex.
Do you even read what I say? Your experience is OUTDATED. Just watch the videos I posted in this very thread (the first two):

http://www.city-data.com/forum/26508344-post11.html

See anything familiar?

Plus you... metrics.. bla-bla-bla...

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To clarify, I never wrote there were no schools in Russia that can match the ones I posted in these terms
I'm sure that's what you've said, but I'm a bit lazy right now to dig it up. No big deal.

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For instance, the first school you posted ("Agri-Business School" showed me a lot).
What exactly?

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Somehow I figured you'd get bored easily with this thread...
I wasn't interested in the very idea - and you noticed it. Too bad you started the thread not with "all Russian schools", as you planned, but with "all public". Not that it helped you.
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