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Old 10-18-2012, 05:17 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,052 posts, read 106,836,948 times
Reputation: 115784

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Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
the world market is captured by insanely capitalized players.
This is very true. This is how Pepsi and Coke are able to push garbage products on the developing world. They use their superior marketing power (capital). The theory that better products will win out over inferior products is a crock. Who wins out is whoever has the most money to put into marketing.

If limonad is supposed to be refrigerated, why is it sold in kiosks unrefrigerated? I carried several bottles to Sweden, and even back to the US after spending weeks in Sweden, and it was fine. Everyone loved it, they couldn't get enough of it. There's a market now for natural soft drinks like that, that's being filled by natural food producers in the West. Russia could have been the first to open that market.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:15 PM
 
26,750 posts, read 22,234,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I don't know why you say this about the limonad. It has an indefinite shelf life, and doesn't require refrigeration. It's very cheap. It sounds like you're talking about a newer product. As for the Baikal Water, it was an initiative to create an exportable product that would compete with other bottled waters in lightweight plastic bottles from around the world. That was the novelty of it.
Ruth I don't think ROL is talking about just your regular Russian limonad, but rather about this particular drink - "Baikal"

Baikal (drink) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

( For some strange reason or the other first I thought ROL was talking about Tarhun, but then I remembered that Tarhun was from Georgia)))

Tarhun (drink) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

( Both were very good from what I remember, not to mention kvass.)
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:28 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,782,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
Sorry if I haven't read the complete thread but is that your position? That Russia is incapabale of manufacturing a global product? ( I first thought this was about schools)
Is it? How many? Of course economy is intertwined with education: you need money for good education.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:03 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,052 posts, read 106,836,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Ruth I don't think ROL is talking about just your regular Russian limonad, but rather about this particular drink - "Baikal"

Baikal (drink) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

( For some strange reason or the other first I thought ROL was talking about Tarhun, but then I remembered that Tarhun was from Georgia)))

Tarhun (drink) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

( Both were very good from what I remember, not to mention kvass.)
Thanks, this makes a lot more sense. As you understood, this isn't at all what I was talking about. Why would anyone want to imitate Coke or Pepsi, anyway? It just goes to show the extent to which American marketing has brainwashed the world. There's a perfectly good and healthy local product, but they convince everyone they need to buy imported cr@p. Or an imitation of it.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:51 PM
 
26,750 posts, read 22,234,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Thanks, this makes a lot more sense. As you understood, this isn't at all what I was talking about. Why would anyone want to imitate Coke or Pepsi, anyway? It just goes to show the extent to which American marketing has brainwashed the world. There's a perfectly good and healthy local product, but they convince everyone they need to buy imported cr@p. Or an imitation of it.
Ha-ha, not exactly; here is an example when corporate America didn't manage to take over;

According to the Merriam Webster Dictionary the first mention of kvass took place sometime around 1553.[11] Although the introduction of western soft drinks such as Coca-Cola and Pepsi had reduced the commercial sale of kvass in Russia, kvass has been more recently marketed as a patriotic alternative to cola, sparking a "kvass revival". For example, the Russian company Nikola (whose name sounds like "not cola" in Russian) has promoted its brand of kvass with an advertising campaign emphasizing "anti cola-nisation." Moscow-based Business Analytica reported in 2008 that bottled kvass sales had tripled since 2005 and estimated that per-capita consumption of kvass in Russia would reach three liters in 2008. Between 2005 and 2007, cola's share of the Moscow soft drink market fell from 37% to 32%. Meanwhile, kvass's share more than doubled over the same time period, reaching 16% in 2007. In response, Coca-Cola launched its own brand of kvass in May 2008. This is the first time a foreign company has made an appreciable entrance into the Russian kvass market. Pepsi has also signed an agreement with a Russian kvass manufacturer to act as a distribution agent. The development of new technologies for storage and distribution, and heavy advertising, have contributed to this surge in popularity; three new major brands have been introduced since 2004.[10]

Kvass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:11 PM
 
Location: FIN
888 posts, read 1,584,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Thanks, this makes a lot more sense. As you understood, this isn't at all what I was talking about. Why would anyone want to imitate Coke or Pepsi, anyway? It just goes to show the extent to which American marketing has brainwashed the world. There's a perfectly good and healthy local product, but they convince everyone they need to buy imported cr@p. Or an imitation of it.
As much as i do agree with you, you shouldn't forget that most anyone of us, from any part of the world can own a share of them. I'm sure the non-american shareholders expect them to perform just as well.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:41 PM
 
26,750 posts, read 22,234,659 times
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Originally Posted by Vic_Vega View Post
As much as i do agree with you, you shouldn't forget that most anyone of us, from any part of the world can own a share of them. I'm sure the non-american shareholders expect them to perform just as well.
..and that's how American corporations turned the world into their stooges)))

Drink Coca-Cola - it's good for your health, not to mention the wallet)))
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Old 10-19-2012, 12:59 AM
 
1,725 posts, read 2,054,173 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
This is very true. This is how Pepsi and Coke are able to push garbage products on the developing world. They use their superior marketing power (capital). The theory that better products will win out over inferior products is a crock. Who wins out is whoever has the most money to put into marketing.
BTW, they licensed Baikal back in USSR, but looks like it didn't fly.

A few years ago Coca Cola began exporting its fake kvas (pausterized, and with citric acid and CO2) - cost in US was simply insane. How would you like fake kvas that costs almost as much as wine?

They and Pepsi failed with kvas in Russia too, despite huge marketing - because it's simply not real enough. But in US real kvas would fail miserably, because of the shelf life and refrigeration requirement.

Quote:
If limonad is supposed to be refrigerated, why is it sold in kiosks unrefrigerated?
Only not natural. It is possible to sell the real one not refrigerated, but only where it will sell quickly. It doesn't spoil as fast as milk, but still...

Quote:
There's a market now for natural soft drinks like that, that's being filled by natural food producers in the West. Russia could have been the first to open that market.
It makes zero sense to export food from Russia. Especially lemonade, that can be produced anywhere.

Quote:
Why would anyone want to imitate Coke or Pepsi, anyway?
Baikal is absolutely not an imitation. Just take a look at ingredients - that's not some powdered flavourings with tons of ugly acid:

Байкал (напиток) — Википедия

The only imitation is color, and that it's an energy drink too - but not because of caffeine.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:02 AM
 
1,725 posts, read 2,054,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Tarhun
Tarhun is great for illustrating the cost difference of a natural lemonade, and cool natural herbal soda. Tarhun costed about twice more.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:16 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,052 posts, read 106,836,948 times
Reputation: 115784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic_Vega View Post
As much as i do agree with you, you shouldn't forget that most anyone of us, from any part of the world can own a share of them. I'm sure the non-american shareholders expect them to perform just as well.
You don't have to own a share of them. I wouldn't, no matter how well they're doing. But...that's just me.
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